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[Music]

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and good afternoon from Philadelphia

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Frank here with yet another episode of

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UFO news network Sunday and let's get

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right to it let me bring on my co-host

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for today and she will introduce our

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special guest for this show come on in

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chant Hannah how are you today Chet I'm

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doing well thank you Frank I hope you're

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doing well - we have a really wonderful

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person on our show today I'm very

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excited to have the privilege and honor

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of interviewing him he is the director

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of international investigations for

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MUFON Steve Hudgens he's born in Fort

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Worth Texas he joined the u.s. Navy in

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69 and has four-and-a-half years of

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honorable service and three and a half

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years of honorable service in the US

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Navy Reserve Steve joined MUFON in 91

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and has conducted independent

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investigations on UFOs for the past two

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decades during this time he has

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investigated over 200 cases for MUFON in

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95 Steve was appointed as Texas chief

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investigator he was part of the original

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Star team conducting Star team related

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investigations in Texas in 2008 he led a

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group of field investigators to

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Stephenville Dublin Texas to investigate

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what is now known as the Stephenville

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lights in onine he became the MUFON

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State Director of Texas until 2012 Steve

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has 20 years of community service with

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many volunteer organizations such as

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Little League Neighborhood Council

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community policing with the Fort Worth

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Vaughn with the Fort Worth Police

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Department the co P search team the co P

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based radio operator Steve is an

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estimator draftsman OSHA outreach

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trainer and Safety Director for a

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multi-million dollar construction

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company

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he is also owner of infinity industries

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and owner host of the Texas UFO radio

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show Steve is currently the MUFON

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international director of investigations

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right now I'm Steve thank you so very

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much for coming under shone I also

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wanted to thank you for serving our

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country thank you very much it's a

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pleasure to be here

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yeah thanks Steve and really yeah one

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thing that that happened right after I

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started getting us seriously are

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actually right before I was

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started getting seriously proactively

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interested in all this UFO stuff was the

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Stephenville case and stiva can you

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bring the folks up to speed I mean it's

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already been more than ten years since

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all that happened can you bring the

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folks up to speed a little bit on what

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the what constituted the case as some of

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the witnesses and the the hubbub that

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that created around the country it was

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really the last big case that we've had

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that really got a whole community sort

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of up in arms and involved in all this

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UFO stuff well it began with a news

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broadcast about some sightings in

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Stephenville and what really promoted it

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was the constable down there I had a

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sighting of his own and he wasn't hiding

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anything he was telling everything he

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knew about it and he didn't care who

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knew about it and I thought that was

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pretty good

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then it got on the nationwide news

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because so many people started coming

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forward with these with these and they

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were reporting them their incidence to

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the I think it was a Stephenville

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newspaper The Gazette Island I forget

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the name but the reporter that was

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taking all of these finally he said you

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know hey we got to get somebody in on

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this and that's when MUFON came in she

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notified the state director then the

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state director notified me and we

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started paying attention to this and she

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kept the reporter kept saying well you

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know I'm still getting all these reports

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what we gonna do about these reports and

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and and I told her I said well I'll tell

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you what let's uh let's just have a man

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a meeting somewhere it may be some

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school or something like that because I

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mentioned school because we had just

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finished a a big meeting up here in my

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neighborhood about a chemical plant

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coming in and and we basically stopped

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that but we had a meeting at school but

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anyway she says okay I'll check into

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that and she called me back cop nights

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later she says well we can have a

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meeting here at the school but it's

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gonna cost about $150 for cleanup and

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all that kind of thing I said well I

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said I don't have $150 and I don't think

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anybody else does

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she says well let me check around and so

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she she called me back and she says well

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this the people down here at the sale

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barn in Dublin have agreed to have the

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meeting there at the sale barn and I

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kind of got to thinking about that and I

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know what sale barns are and then well

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what I what are they for the folks that

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don't know well that's where you take

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your your cows and your pigs and your

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horses and you go down there new auction

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them off and surrounding the sale barn

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our pins where they store them so when

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you store animals you know they're there

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they don't have a little potty they can

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go right they just do so this is a

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literal barn then you're talking about

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yes it's open it's a pretty good-sized

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little area but he said I'll clean it

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all up and all this kind of thing but

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before all of that before we even

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started going down there to do that the

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Dublin I forget the name of that place

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all the time have to look at my wife but

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they they called us and said hey we have

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a large room and you can have your

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meeting here and will supply the the

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Dublin dr. pepper and the popcorn and

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yeah la that's quite a bit so hey so

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that's where we had the meeting so the

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reporter put that in the newspaper and

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says you know anyone that has had a

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sighting you know come down here MUFON

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is gonna be here talked to MUFON about

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it and we had about a week advance

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notices and so that Saturday came up and

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we drove down there and I got there

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early man it was pretty good-sized it's

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place and we were starting our meeting

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and we were setting up our rules and

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things and and we didn't want anybody in

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there filming because you don't have

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people are they're gonna film go out and

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do this and and make up things as they

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want so the group started filling up and

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there's I think it was a capacity of

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about 400 maybe I don't know it's pretty

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good-sized room and the room starts

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filling up big time and we were doing

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little small little interviews all in

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there I was taking up a lot of time and

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so it was time for the meeting to start

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and they tapped me on the shoulder and

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hey you got a stock comedian go over

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there and do this okay so I made my way

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over to the to this podium they had

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setup up and and and I got over that

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podium and my paperwork

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I looked up and the first thing I was

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shocked by or really kind of surprised

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by was all these microphones that were

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stuck on this podium and I'm looking at

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that I look like a cactus I mean there's

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just so many other help there and just

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kind of spread that's when I looked up

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and I looked up and I say all these

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tripods with big cameras arm NBC ABC CBS

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oh my god I just just the backtrack

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Steve just the backtrack a little bit

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the reporter you're talking about I

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believe would be Angela Joyner yes okay

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and she was working for the local paper

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I can't recall off the top of my head

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but she was working for life or even

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ville Gazette or something like that but

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I could be saying it well but it had to

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do with Stephenville yeah she was

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working for Steve and it seems like

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other news media bigger news media

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picked up on her stories and I then

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followed up is that about right yeah

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when you think about happening yes there

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was there was another reporter and her

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name was Angela also but not Angela

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Joyner and she was with the I forget

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what they call it but when she reported

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anything and went national they went to

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all about the people and that's what

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they picked up on okay that that your

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big scene in Stephenville Holly blah

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blah blah they picked up on that and

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then they started paying attention to

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the Stephenville newspaper that's me

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found out when the meeting was going to

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be so really careful and the later the

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police were telling us that this is the

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first time in the history of Dublin

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Texas that they only have two red lights

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on this town that they've had a traffic

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jam that they took hours to get finished

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there's so many people there we we

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filled the room up and people that

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couldn't get in there was too many

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people okay but but at this point the

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only report that you had great

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familiarity with was from the constable

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Leroy gaëtan is that about right

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yes and there was another

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another report from Steve Allen and he

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was in a he's and he was the pilot okay

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now kidnap can you give the folks a

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little bit of an idea of what gate an

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actually reported and then what Steve

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Allen reported okay Leroy Gaytan

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reported that he saw a lot of just he

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described it as multicolored lights and

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they were just kind of moving around and

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dancing around in this one little area

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and he said he's never seen anything

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like that before and that's what he saw

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and he's sticking to his guns humming

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okay he never has changed this story and

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I'll tell you something else in a minute

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in a minute about about that that's

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related to that but Steve Allen he was

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like out like in a driveway of a some

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friend's home they were out sitting in

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chairs and about three or four of them

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out there and they were not there

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talking and how people do and this large

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object flew over them and Steve Allen's

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a pilot he knows how to gauge things and

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measure things he said this thing was

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was a mile wide and half a mile thick or

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deep and I started calling it the flying

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Walmart that's just don't know a good

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pay pack for this I went over and this

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time we followed by a couple of jet

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aircraft okay you broke up that you

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okay okay I'll start over he they saw

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this object there was a half mile wide

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and a mile long we'll go like that doc

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held it the fly in Walmart okay it flew

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across them and went out of sight then

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it turned around and then it came back

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and had a couple of jets chasing it okay

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oh they just went on out of sight so

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that's that's what they saw and and that

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report alone got a lot of people stirred

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up so we basically asked anybody this

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had a UFO

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you'll come down and report it and about

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500 people did and mahad's

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we had about six investigators maybe

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seven and they stayed busy for the rest

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of the day second reports but these

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reports were twenty to thirty years old

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so you have to ask yourself what the

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world's going on down there that so many

272
00:12:38,740 --> 00:12:34,110
people haven't so many reports you know

273
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:38,750
so many times so as we got into it we

274
00:12:44,540 --> 00:12:41,250
discovered that the entire area around

275
00:12:47,330 --> 00:12:44,550
Stephenville and Dublin is a military

276
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:47,340
operating zone so in other words that's

277
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:50,130
where all the Jets go to play okay and

278
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,050
play play war and all that kind of thing

279
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:54,720
and then with the deeper we got into it

280
00:12:59,210 --> 00:12:56,490
we say the people say they're signing

281
00:13:01,280 --> 00:12:59,220
everything your lights and balls and

282
00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:01,290
orbs and of course anything that's

283
00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:04,230
around light is an orb and I hate the

284
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:07,740
word orbit but we're constantly seeing

285
00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:09,690
these things and they're constantly

286
00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:11,430
reporting these things and that's when

287
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:13,740
we discovered there's only about 9000

288
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:15,810
different types of airplane flares that

289
00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:18,720
they can drop so you know most of the

290
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:21,030
stuff I believe was just aircraft

291
00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:24,330
operating around and dropping flares and

292
00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:27,900
you know plane to plane contact and just

293
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:30,120
on and on and on until the flying

294
00:13:36,860 --> 00:13:34,770
Walmart comes in and what's exceptional

295
00:13:40,330 --> 00:13:36,870
about the flying Walmart is it's just

296
00:13:45,010 --> 00:13:40,340
one night it flew over very slowly over

297
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:45,020
downtown Stephenville and at that time

298
00:13:50,990 --> 00:13:48,050
for police officers for Stephenville

299
00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:51,000
sighted it and they were in different

300
00:13:56,330 --> 00:13:52,680
positions around Steve we really weren't

301
00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:56,340
together and Manta CAC Congress get

302
00:14:00,680 --> 00:13:58,500
these guys to come up and say what they

303
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:00,690
were talking about but they were afraid

304
00:14:04,850 --> 00:14:01,650
they were gonna get fired

305
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:04,860
do you like kind of thing but I don't

306
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:06,930
know what the flying Walmart is or why

307
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:09,390
and I've always said that I think it's

308
00:14:15,580 --> 00:14:13,410
ours because I don't know that that I

309
00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:15,590
just find it hard to believe that an

310
00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:20,580
intelligent race from some multi

311
00:14:25,710 --> 00:14:24,040
billion-dollar miles away

312
00:14:28,050 --> 00:14:25,720
you want to fly the only thing they have

313
00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:28,060
to get back home over an area where the

314
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:32,350
planet or rate of apes have so just I

315
00:14:38,269 --> 00:14:35,230
just love ours just my opinion

316
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:38,279
understood understood now one of those

317
00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:40,930
one of those folks sir who did come

318
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:42,550
forward at least a little bit

319
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,959
anonymously was a guy named officer X so

320
00:14:51,210 --> 00:14:49,839
he didn't go on the record okay and how

321
00:14:52,889 --> 00:14:51,220
can you describe to the folks a little

322
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:52,899
bit about what he saw I mean he saw

323
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:54,610
something really big flying I guess

324
00:14:59,850 --> 00:14:57,250
right over at the County Courthouse as I

325
00:15:02,460 --> 00:14:59,860
recall yes it was what I called the

326
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:02,470
flying Walmart it's the the object that

327
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:05,290
I have a artist's conception of that

328
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:07,270
thing around here in my locker here

329
00:15:14,750 --> 00:15:12,160
somewhere and but it was a large object

330
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:14,760
one mile by half a mile and it also had

331
00:15:19,290 --> 00:15:17,529
I don't you call them stanchions or

332
00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:19,300
extensions or we're going to call coming

333
00:15:23,329 --> 00:15:20,980
out of the superstructure on own from

334
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:23,339
the middle on both ends both sides and

335
00:15:28,050 --> 00:15:25,930
he described this thing as going slowly

336
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:28,060
over like you're talking about right

337
00:15:35,699 --> 00:15:32,370
over downtown and then it it turned

338
00:15:41,130 --> 00:15:35,709
inverted up 90 degrees and then just

339
00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:41,140
took off now did his sighting correlate

340
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:43,990
with Steve Allen's was it at the same

341
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:46,810
time or they they they got together and

342
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:48,130
talked about that and it was similar yes

343
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:49,930
but Steve Allen's he wasn't close enough

344
00:15:54,030 --> 00:15:52,240
all he could see was lights right but

345
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:54,040
what I mean is do they correlate

346
00:15:58,110 --> 00:15:56,050
timewise you know did they see the same

347
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:58,120
thing at the same time times okay look

348
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:00,360
at times different times different days

349
00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:03,430
got it got it and there was another key

350
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:06,550
witness to that case who claimed that he

351
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:08,650
got a as a matter of fact his pictures

352
00:16:14,130 --> 00:16:10,930
up right now well on the slideshow so

353
00:16:16,290 --> 00:16:14,140
I'll bring him up now he got a according

354
00:16:19,650 --> 00:16:16,300
to him a daytime sighting pretty

355
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:19,660
up-close of apparently the same object a

356
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:24,670
guy named Ricky Sorrels and yes I don't

357
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:25,930
know if it was the same object or not

358
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:29,529
but he was out deer hunting if you want

359
00:16:33,689 --> 00:16:32,650
to call it that and he was walking along

360
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:33,699
walking on walking on

361
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:36,160
suddeniy just kind of looked up and he

362
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:38,079
looked up and he was kind of you know

363
00:16:43,739 --> 00:16:40,209
shocked and surprised and there's this

364
00:16:45,989 --> 00:16:43,749
large object above him pretty close he

365
00:16:47,999 --> 00:16:45,999
said it was so close and so that he

366
00:16:50,429 --> 00:16:48,009
looked to the to the trying to find the

367
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:50,439
edges of this thing and he couldn't find

368
00:16:57,659 --> 00:16:53,410
the edges of it but it wasn't an oblong

369
00:17:00,659 --> 00:16:57,669
it was a round object and he looked

370
00:17:03,539 --> 00:17:00,669
through his scope I did not I don't know

371
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:03,549
if I would have done that or not but

372
00:17:08,429 --> 00:17:06,130
there's riflescope you mean so important

373
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:08,439
you gotta you gotta point the gun at the

374
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:10,089
thing in order to walk through the scope

375
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,730
to see it that's right I'm sayin I don't

376
00:17:15,689 --> 00:17:13,600
know if that would have been a smart

377
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:15,699
idea but anyway he did that and he was

378
00:17:19,259 --> 00:17:17,470
getting a close look and he he said he

379
00:17:22,019 --> 00:17:19,269
could see rivets and seams and stuff

380
00:17:24,269 --> 00:17:22,029
like that and and he saw some other

381
00:17:25,949 --> 00:17:24,279
things that he hasn't confessed to me

382
00:17:28,649 --> 00:17:25,959
about but I found loud later and I'm not

383
00:17:32,159 --> 00:17:28,659
gonna mention that but but that cuz

384
00:17:34,379 --> 00:17:32,169
that's not common knowledge but then he

385
00:17:37,379 --> 00:17:34,389
said it he said it took off and he said

386
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:37,389
if it had taken off as he blinked his

387
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:39,130
eye he would have missed it that's how

388
00:17:45,269 --> 00:17:41,260
fast it took off okay okay

389
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:45,279
and later on fellow associated with

390
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:49,360
MUFON Robert Powell was able to get hold

391
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:54,880
of a radar report that basically are

392
00:17:59,159 --> 00:17:57,010
correlated to some of the sightings and

393
00:18:02,250 --> 00:17:59,169
according to his findings in the paper

394
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:02,260
that he wrote up that this object was

395
00:18:10,259 --> 00:18:05,620
about 500 feet across and traveling at

396
00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:10,269
2,000 miles an hour this this happened a

397
00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:11,860
little bit after the fact I guess after

398
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:13,480
the hubbub had died down a little bit

399
00:18:17,639 --> 00:18:16,120
but he was able to get that and Kenya

400
00:18:21,299 --> 00:18:17,649
you tell the folks a little bit more

401
00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:21,309
about that well I never did read the

402
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:25,750
report because it's too long and I

403
00:18:28,289 --> 00:18:27,010
didn't want to take the time to read it

404
00:18:29,610 --> 00:18:28,299
I mean a lot of people have read it and

405
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:29,620
they said yeah okay that's pretty cool

406
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,190
on this kind of thing but you know when

407
00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:35,200
you do a radar report yeah I have no

408
00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:39,190
idea how to decipher one of them but you

409
00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:40,360
know that if that's what they found

410
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:47,570
okay and also the the media that came

411
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:51,360
down I mean Larry King came down and I

412
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:53,010
did interviews it did you get to meet

413
00:18:58,060 --> 00:18:55,440
Larry King and all that no that was on a

414
00:19:04,160 --> 00:18:58,070
separate day okay okay

415
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:04,170
and so finally yeah you think most of

416
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:08,070
these were unidentified enta fication x'

417
00:19:13,790 --> 00:19:10,730
but there are a couple of legitimately

418
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:13,800
interesting sightings in there yes I do

419
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:16,110
there was one one case I want to bring

420
00:19:24,020 --> 00:19:20,160
up this one person said they saw four

421
00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:24,030
lights they weren't moving and they were

422
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:26,070
stacked on top of each other you know I

423
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,530
one two three four right and I'm said

424
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:30,720
well what in the world could that be no

425
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:34,110
idea and I'm thinking flares you know

426
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:35,280
that kind of thing but there's one night

427
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:37,490
I was coming back from Stephenville and

428
00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:42,770
I just happened to go just south of the

429
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:47,400
airbase out here and in Lake Worth it

430
00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:49,110
used to be a sac base but they took all

431
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:51,270
the b-52s out and that made me sad that

432
00:19:57,290 --> 00:19:54,690
day I love those b-52s but I just I was

433
00:19:58,670 --> 00:19:57,300
driving by the by the south and free

434
00:20:03,440 --> 00:19:58,680
when I looked over just kind of glanced

435
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:03,450
over and I saw four stacked lights north

436
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:08,490
of the runway and what that is is four

437
00:20:12,110 --> 00:20:10,080
planes approaching with their landing

438
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:12,120
light on right right right

439
00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:13,890
when they're coming right at you they're

440
00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:15,540
looking like they're yours right and

441
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:17,220
when the landing lights are on they have

442
00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:19,890
a tendency to wash out the nav lights so

443
00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:24,870
you can right then I was driving I

444
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:26,160
couldn't get a picture of it which I

445
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:29,250
will but anyway that's that's what that

446
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:31,110
was these planes out here they get to

447
00:20:34,670 --> 00:20:33,030
practicing doing everything so why not

448
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:34,680
practice a run on something with a

449
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:36,390
riling landing as I said that's that's

450
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:38,730
what that is right right yeah yeah I

451
00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:41,490
happened to see a couple of planes are

452
00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:43,740
flying parallel to one other one another

453
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,350
one night and they were flashing their

454
00:20:50,780 --> 00:20:48,480
landing lights back and forth and it's

455
00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:50,790
very difficult I mean you've really got

456
00:20:54,530 --> 00:20:52,470
to watch for a while and because those

457
00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:54,540
landing lights are so bright they they

458
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:56,310
do have a tendency to

459
00:20:59,480 --> 00:20:57,930
skew your vision a little bit and not be

460
00:21:02,270 --> 00:20:59,490
able to pick up things like the nav

461
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:02,280
lights and it can look for all the world

462
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,530
like there's one giant object unless

463
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:06,240
you're really looking carefully and

464
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:09,090
you're fairly close it's a it's an

465
00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:10,740
interesting phenomenon it's a good to be

466
00:21:15,530 --> 00:21:12,270
aware of it if yeah you're looking for

467
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:15,540
UFOs so at the end of the day Steve how

468
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:18,450
many of the we've got what just one or

469
00:21:23,690 --> 00:21:21,330
two or three or four really good

470
00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:23,700
sightings within this larger case and

471
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:26,100
the rest of them are misidentifications

472
00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:36,380
okay okay okay okay got it and right

473
00:21:40,910 --> 00:21:38,340
right understand you you tend to think

474
00:21:42,530 --> 00:21:40,920
it's one of ourselves well the only

475
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:42,540
reason I think that is because it's

476
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:44,970
flying around an area with jets that

477
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:47,700
have bombs and missiles and you know

478
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:50,580
what take a chance on these like I said

479
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:52,290
and the Apes

480
00:22:04,060 --> 00:21:54,510
right right right without a lot of guys

481
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:04,070
with scope hunting right okay and

482
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:06,420
finally one thing that I find especially

483
00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:09,690
interesting in this case is of course we

484
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:11,940
know all about that to the Stars Academy

485
00:22:16,910 --> 00:22:14,460
and this ATM program and it is the one

486
00:22:20,650 --> 00:22:16,920
exceptionally well known case that

487
00:22:25,030 --> 00:22:20,660
happened during this a tip time frame of

488
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:25,040
you know late 2000s into the teens and

489
00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:27,780
apparently I was able to ask George

490
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:29,550
Knapp about this so when he had a little

491
00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:32,580
AMA over at coast to coast and I did ask

492
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:35,910
him did a tip look at this case at all

493
00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:38,910
and he said he that it was investigated

494
00:22:43,250 --> 00:22:40,620
by the military but he wasn't sure if it

495
00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:43,260
was a tip or offset and so he did

496
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:45,060
confirm that and do you have any

497
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:47,250
thoughts on that do you know about the

498
00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:49,260
government itself looking at any of

499
00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:52,380
these sightings I love it when someone

500
00:22:58,430 --> 00:22:56,070
asked my opinion well I just did there

501
00:22:58,940 --> 00:22:58,440
you go I will give it okay I'll look at

502
00:23:01,010 --> 00:22:58,950
it this way

503
00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:01,020
anybody that's part of the government or

504
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:02,340
works with the government or has worked

505
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,570
with the government if they come right

506
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:05,760
out of the gate oh hey look at this

507
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:07,110
here's what they're hiding in there blah

508
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:08,610
blah blah blah I have no credibility

509
00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:09,200
with that

510
00:23:17,410 --> 00:23:12,680
whatsoever because it's it's it's a

511
00:23:18,910 --> 00:23:17,420
government secret for a reason and

512
00:23:22,510 --> 00:23:18,920
that's just the way I'm going to leave

513
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:22,520
it all right all right well that as far

514
00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:24,890
as Stephenville anything else a you want

515
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:26,150
to add that I didn't ask you about

516
00:23:30,970 --> 00:23:28,520
regarding Stephenville yes there's a

517
00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:30,980
little known incident happened almost a

518
00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:33,860
year later okay Stephen bill and I

519
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:35,860
haven't made much heyday about it

520
00:23:41,980 --> 00:23:39,710
because back in that day I was getting

521
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:41,990
phone calls all during the night and I

522
00:23:45,970 --> 00:23:43,610
was having to do interviews at 5:30 in

523
00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:45,980
the morning and it was the same thing

524
00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:47,420
over and over and over and over Dover

525
00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:51,020
and I just got caught tired of doing it

526
00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:52,040
if you know what I mean

527
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:54,190
sure sure he's over now yes we had a

528
00:23:59,620 --> 00:23:57,290
striking incident and I think it was

529
00:24:01,930 --> 00:23:59,630
November to December with about six

530
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:01,940
different people and one night are

531
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:02,960
scattered all the way across

532
00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:05,450
Stephenville okay and we even have a

533
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:08,870
radar report okay and it was a very

534
00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:12,230
striking and no one wanted that they all

535
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:14,030
wanted to be anonymous I read every one

536
00:24:20,620 --> 00:24:16,910
of them and so that's the way I've left

537
00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:20,630
it we still do we still don't know what

538
00:24:26,350 --> 00:24:23,060
it was it's not an object okay where

539
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:26,360
what did he see just an object written

540
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:28,990
from Leslie was going from east to west

541
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:32,930
and then turned and went north anything

542
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:34,510
unusual about the flight characteristics

543
00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:37,910
high speed if just like an airplane and

544
00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:39,500
I'm thinking maybe it was an airplane

545
00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:41,180
okay okay I'll look at flight

546
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:43,040
characteristics if it flies like ours

547
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:43,490
it's ours

548
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:45,710
okay understood understood all right and

549
00:24:50,860 --> 00:24:48,410
so you were already in position

550
00:24:52,510 --> 00:24:50,870
obviously to investigate this case so

551
00:24:54,220 --> 00:24:52,520
you're already involved and move on so

552
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:54,230
why don't you tell us a little bit about

553
00:24:58,540 --> 00:24:56,570
you know why you got that involved in

554
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,550
the organization in the first place

555
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:00,320
what's your interest in all this hold on

556
00:25:07,270 --> 00:25:04,010
I have a series of questions asked yeah

557
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,280
all right so let me go ahead and before

558
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:09,440
we ask that question that I plan on

559
00:25:13,540 --> 00:25:11,930
asking you Steve I wanted to ask you

560
00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:13,550
something that you've already gone over

561
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:16,220
but I wanted to ask you again to review

562
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:18,410
this topic and that is you think the

563
00:25:22,659 --> 00:25:20,870
Stephenville lights but correct me if

564
00:25:24,669 --> 00:25:22,669
I'm if I'm wrong you

565
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:24,679
you think the Stephenville lights event

566
00:25:32,109 --> 00:25:27,590
could have been one of ours does that

567
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:32,119
mean DARPA or some Department of the US

568
00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:35,330
government built a craft or crafts that

569
00:25:40,690 --> 00:25:36,980
are using technology that is not

570
00:25:42,609 --> 00:25:40,700
recognized publicly or acknowledged or

571
00:25:44,859 --> 00:25:42,619
being shared about publicly by the US

572
00:25:46,899 --> 00:25:44,869
government I'm glad you asked me that

573
00:25:50,169 --> 00:25:46,909
because I can answer it I cannot answer

574
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:50,179
that but I'll answer it this way with a

575
00:25:58,029 --> 00:25:52,690
series of questions for you and Frank

576
00:26:01,570 --> 00:25:58,039
how long was a man in an animal drawn

577
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:01,580
vehicle you know what an animal drawn

578
00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:09,340
vehicle I would guess a few thousand

579
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:12,830
five to ten thousand years estimated at

580
00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:16,730
2,500 years okay now from the time that

581
00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:19,700
man stepped off of the animal drawn

582
00:26:25,379 --> 00:26:22,519
vehicle and stepped onto the moon how

583
00:26:28,570 --> 00:26:25,389
many years is that a little more than 50

584
00:26:34,869 --> 00:26:28,580
yes that's just about right about 55 or

585
00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:34,879
60 now with that in mind why after a

586
00:26:39,639 --> 00:26:37,100
hundred and twenty years are we still

587
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:39,649
getting 21 miles to a gallon in our cars

588
00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:49,730
I could insert some conspiracy theories

589
00:26:54,099 --> 00:26:51,470
about that like apparently there is an

590
00:26:55,659 --> 00:26:54,109
electric vehicle long before electric

591
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,669
vehicles came out that was taken off the

592
00:27:02,710 --> 00:26:57,919
market by the folks who made electric

593
00:27:06,489 --> 00:27:02,720
vehicle electric vehicles are not really

594
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:06,499
feasible because you can go home tonight

595
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:09,230
and if everyone plugged in their toaster

596
00:27:14,889 --> 00:27:13,279
you shut the grid down I understand that

597
00:27:17,859 --> 00:27:14,899
I'm just saying that that question could

598
00:27:19,810 --> 00:27:17,869
be answered in many different ways so so

599
00:27:22,749 --> 00:27:19,820
my question to you again is I'm going to

600
00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:22,759
ask it again you think this even though

601
00:27:29,259 --> 00:27:25,460
lights event could have been one of ours

602
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:29,269
if incorrect please correct me does that

603
00:27:34,899 --> 00:27:32,090
mean DARPA or some Department of our

604
00:27:37,049 --> 00:27:34,909
government US government built a craft

605
00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:37,059
or crafts

606
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:43,420
that are using technology that is not

607
00:27:51,390 --> 00:27:48,000
recognized publicly by our US government

608
00:27:53,910 --> 00:27:51,400
yes I believe it's a program of our own

609
00:27:57,270 --> 00:27:53,920
that's why we're 23 trillion dollars in

610
00:28:00,810 --> 00:27:57,280
debt and we're still getting 21 miles to

611
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:00,820
a gallon in our cars mm-hmm and all the

612
00:28:04,350 --> 00:28:02,290
money and everything is being spent on

613
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:04,360
the secret space program and that's the

614
00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:08,130
way I look at it and certainly I do

615
00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:10,420
believe there's the possibility of

616
00:28:15,630 --> 00:28:13,660
aliens from another planet in this vast

617
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:15,640
universe anyone that says no there isn't

618
00:28:24,330 --> 00:28:23,190
I met one but it's very possible yeah

619
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:24,340
I'm glad you I'm glad you said that

620
00:28:27,030 --> 00:28:25,330
because I was gonna be my next question

621
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,040
I just wanted to give an analogy

622
00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:29,200
regarding how I feel about that topic

623
00:28:36,299 --> 00:28:32,380
and then ask you agree with it so I I

624
00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:36,309
myself cannot produce an an alien of any

625
00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:38,440
kind an extraterrestrial of any kind to

626
00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:42,460
anyone however the reason why well the

627
00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:46,030
way I feel about the et topic is I this

628
00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:48,670
really and intuitively feel and through

629
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:51,550
what I've read regarding science and

630
00:29:00,120 --> 00:28:55,690
more that the possibility of ETS are out

631
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:00,130
there now how I feel about it is if you

632
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:03,010
were to envision a mole the creature you

633
00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:04,720
know the animal going underneath the

634
00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:07,150
ground and just tunneling his way around

635
00:29:15,450 --> 00:29:11,470
the land and you see the evidence of it

636
00:29:18,419 --> 00:29:15,460
on top like that little hill of dirt

637
00:29:21,270 --> 00:29:18,429
that is produced by his movements that

638
00:29:25,049 --> 00:29:21,280
to me sort of is a good metaphor for me

639
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:25,059
anyway regarding the et topic you you

640
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:27,160
know they're there you can't produce

641
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,360
that mol / ETS but you feel like you see

642
00:29:35,790 --> 00:29:33,520
evidence or traces of it there after

643
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:35,800
their having moved around or been there

644
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:39,370
that idea do you agree with that met

645
00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:43,530
before yes I do okay now wanted to

646
00:29:47,970 --> 00:29:46,150
wanted to go for something that's a

647
00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:47,980
little contentious for some people but

648
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:50,260
very interesting

649
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:53,530
I like that you and I went over and that

650
00:29:58,350 --> 00:29:56,710
was the paranormal topic okay and that

651
00:30:00,780 --> 00:29:58,360
was first of all let's start with

652
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:00,790
something before we go on to the

653
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:01,809
paranormal topic

654
00:30:06,570 --> 00:30:04,900
you mentioned orbs and that you really

655
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:06,580
despise that word can you tell our

656
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:10,000
audience why you do because I've seen 10

657
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:15,570
million photographs of lens flares dust

658
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:19,049
reflections and they look like round

659
00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:22,450
blobs of light and when people see these

660
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:24,190
in their photographs of course they

661
00:30:27,810 --> 00:30:26,290
don't see them until after they get the

662
00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:27,820
photograph and look at it because they

663
00:30:33,390 --> 00:30:29,860
don't see it from beginning and that's

664
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,400
origin orbs the energy from my dead

665
00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:34,960
grandmother or something like that or

666
00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:37,419
it's a spy I guess the card alyssum of

667
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:39,220
that no it's reflections it's dust this

668
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:42,010
insects it's just stuff like that so I

669
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:44,410
always say look if you gave if you have

670
00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:47,770
a photograph of an orb make sure you

671
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:50,440
take it without the flash because the

672
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:53,530
flash is you're dead dangerous that's

673
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:54,970
the implement the implementer of the

674
00:31:01,530 --> 00:30:58,480
deal and we look at the FLIR and that's

675
00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:01,540
the information on your photo and if you

676
00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:02,860
took this without a flash hey you got

677
00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:04,840
something to talk about but otherwise

678
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:06,780
and forget it

679
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:09,370
okay um I wanted to talk to you about

680
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:10,990
something that you and I have gone over

681
00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:14,049
before and that is the topic of the

682
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:16,600
paranormal now the paranormal can

683
00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:18,820
encompass quite a few different topics

684
00:31:23,789 --> 00:31:21,340
so I'll just narrow it down let's just

685
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:23,799
pretend there's an individual who is

686
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:26,950
claiming that they have a haunting in

687
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:28,750
their house now I want to make it clear

688
00:31:32,490 --> 00:31:29,440
to everybody

689
00:31:35,789 --> 00:31:32,500
MUFON does not investigate the

690
00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:35,799
paranormal regarding those kinds of

691
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:38,200
things that's not something that they

692
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:40,360
cover right Steve that's correct

693
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:43,929
okay now just a personal hypothesis you

694
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:46,809
may have about that and please correct

695
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:50,640
me if I'm wrong is if if an individual

696
00:31:58,289 --> 00:31:54,790
feels they are seeing something that

697
00:32:01,320 --> 00:31:58,299
could be considered an old antiquated

698
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:01,330
word a Spectre a ghost having a haunting

699
00:32:06,419 --> 00:32:03,850
it either could be and I'm not

700
00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:06,429
you said this I am saying this it could

701
00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:08,470
be medication it could be because

702
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:11,140
they're dehydrated they could be having

703
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:13,590
a bipolar event or schizophrenic

704
00:32:19,650 --> 00:32:16,480
incident a related incident there could

705
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:19,660
be some kind of undiagnosed mental

706
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:23,140
illness an individual could have or they

707
00:32:27,659 --> 00:32:25,330
could really be seeing that now there's

708
00:32:30,810 --> 00:32:27,669
probably a wider variety of

709
00:32:33,510 --> 00:32:30,820
possibilities there that I'm producing

710
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:33,520
as possibilities what do you think the

711
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:35,700
possibilities are regarding a haunting

712
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:39,039
everything you said okay I'll tell you

713
00:32:45,149 --> 00:32:41,770
what I've never seen a UFO at all that I

714
00:32:50,610 --> 00:32:45,159
consider a UFO but I've had my share of

715
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:50,620
paranormal events in that weird way you

716
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:52,630
might want to ask why are you not a

717
00:32:59,640 --> 00:32:55,600
paranormal investigator well I don't

718
00:33:01,560 --> 00:32:59,650
think it's I don't think it is what you

719
00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:01,570
think it is I think it's something else

720
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:02,140
entirely

721
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:06,720
can you share with us what that is okay

722
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:10,510
let's take for instance here's a little

723
00:33:13,649 --> 00:33:13,210
kid in the bed to sleep at night all

724
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:13,659
right

725
00:33:19,529 --> 00:33:17,650
all of a sudden the kid wakes up looks

726
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:19,539
up the foot of the bed and he sees his

727
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:22,330
dead grandmother now this is nothing I

728
00:33:27,930 --> 00:33:24,010
don't want to miss using this as an

729
00:33:31,649 --> 00:33:27,940
example a dead relative and the relative

730
00:33:33,690 --> 00:33:31,659
is in a I don't know ghostly look

731
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:33,700
whatever and it just looks around and

732
00:33:37,289 --> 00:33:35,530
looks at the kid and the kid kind of

733
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:37,299
settles down because it recognizes if it

734
00:33:42,180 --> 00:33:40,570
is and either runs out of the room hey I

735
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:42,190
see granny in here I'll never let it out

736
00:33:45,450 --> 00:33:44,049
of there some come over here go to bed

737
00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:45,460
with us yours having a nightmare and all

738
00:33:49,770 --> 00:33:47,230
that kind of thing okay let's put it in

739
00:33:52,409 --> 00:33:49,780
a different perspective the kid wakes up

740
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:52,419
and looks at the foot of his bed and you

741
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:55,330
season hailey and at the foot of his bed

742
00:34:02,399 --> 00:33:58,960
going through all of us stop off that

743
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:02,409
kid's gonna freak out maybe die maybe

744
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,730
jump on it you know so that's the way

745
00:34:12,780 --> 00:34:08,320
I'm looking at it now because we all

746
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:12,790
know that aliens have mind control we

747
00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:14,530
all know that anybody has ever been

748
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:16,629
abducted or even talked about it well I

749
00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:17,500
couldn't move

750
00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:19,600
flouted we did this and they looked

751
00:34:22,169 --> 00:34:20,980
right straight at me and I don't

752
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:22,179
remember anything so they have

753
00:34:28,379 --> 00:34:24,610
mind-control now I'm going to couple

754
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:28,389
that with Bigfoot and anything else

755
00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:31,510
that's paranormal in the bushes it's all

756
00:34:37,919 --> 00:34:33,940
mind control in my mind and reason I say

757
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:37,929
that is because no one has ever come up

758
00:34:44,610 --> 00:34:42,639
with a Bigfoot or a fairy or a goblin or

759
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:44,620
anything else you see out there no one

760
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:45,850
has ever grabbed wouldn't by the neck

761
00:34:51,389 --> 00:34:48,899
and say hey here it is it's not there

762
00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:51,399
it's a figment of what you see in your

763
00:34:58,980 --> 00:34:53,860
mind and that's just the way I look at

764
00:35:02,240 --> 00:34:58,990
it I'm sorry okay yeah I can actually

765
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:02,250
add to that there was an interesting

766
00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:05,110
interview that Stanton Friedman actually

767
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:09,400
did with skeptic oh I believe and he

768
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:11,170
actually said some pretty interesting

769
00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:14,410
things in that interview yeah and what

770
00:35:19,710 --> 00:35:16,780
Stanton Friedman said was he believed

771
00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:19,720
that using the Betty and Barney Hill

772
00:35:29,820 --> 00:35:25,630
case as an example that Barney actually

773
00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:29,830
had a telepathic incident that occurred

774
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:32,740
and that was when he was being called to

775
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:35,830
the craft telepathically and they just

776
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:37,990
found it interesting in fact somebody

777
00:35:44,970 --> 00:35:40,210
pointed out to me that they felt that

778
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:44,980
Stanton Friedman said he didn't believe

779
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:47,920
that but if you look at that skeptical

780
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:50,560
article he said he's convinced and that

781
00:35:56,190 --> 00:35:52,510
he does basically believe or he did

782
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,200
rather that telepathy was possible now

783
00:36:02,070 --> 00:35:58,720
it's just interesting somebody of his

784
00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:02,080
stature who is sort of your iconic

785
00:36:07,740 --> 00:36:05,860
researcher believe that I think he

786
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:07,750
believed it because after all the

787
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:10,720
decades of research he did on the UFO

788
00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:13,690
topic and more it only made sense to

789
00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:17,020
come to that conclusion that if ETS are

790
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:19,120
out there which I believe they are I

791
00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:22,270
know he believes they are out there and

792
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:26,020
you do that it seems to make sense that

793
00:36:31,470 --> 00:36:29,380
mind control or telepath telepathy could

794
00:36:33,540 --> 00:36:31,480
be used now move

795
00:36:39,390 --> 00:36:33,550
along here wanted to ask you something

796
00:36:41,460 --> 00:36:39,400
else and that is going back to crap well

797
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:41,470
let me let me just jump in here real

798
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:44,290
quick and say I think people are leaping

799
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,030
to that conclusion a little too quickly

800
00:36:50,609 --> 00:36:48,880
and that the technology might be at the

801
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:50,619
root of some of these experiences as

802
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:53,890
well advanced technology but that would

803
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:56,050
still in essence be the ability to read

804
00:37:01,730 --> 00:36:58,720
someone's mind through technology not

805
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:01,740
that through any sort of psychic ability

806
00:37:05,550 --> 00:37:02,890
okay

807
00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:05,560
well I I think that it's possible that

808
00:37:14,099 --> 00:37:11,740
through the evolution of just being that

809
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:14,109
a being could possibly get to that state

810
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:17,080
I don't think it's beyond the ability of

811
00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:19,450
of a human to do it either I think

812
00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:21,369
there's plenty of human related cases

813
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:24,609
where that's that appears to be the case

814
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:27,190
that humans are capable of doing that at

815
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:30,640
times yeah point to it to a point to a

816
00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:34,000
point but we've also had some leaps in

817
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:36,940
our own technology since a lot of those

818
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:39,010
ideas started being developed and

819
00:37:43,410 --> 00:37:41,170
floating around where we see more

820
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:43,420
virtual reality that kind of thing so I

821
00:37:48,750 --> 00:37:45,430
don't think we should rule out the

822
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,760
possibility that it could be completely

823
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:50,560
technologically driven that's all I'm

824
00:37:54,690 --> 00:37:52,570
saying I agree with you and what do you

825
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:54,700
think Steve well I'm not gonna rule that

826
00:37:58,890 --> 00:37:57,010
out either but nine times out of ten

827
00:38:01,530 --> 00:37:58,900
these aliens are nude there's no

828
00:38:04,590 --> 00:38:01,540
uniforms no equipment nothing plus they

829
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:04,600
have a large brain capacity which makes

830
00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:07,270
it very feasible as far as I'm concerned

831
00:38:16,770 --> 00:38:13,540
and going back to humans and us we some

832
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:16,780
of us claim to be remote viewers that

833
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:19,450
falls right in the line and I always

834
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,890
challenge someone when they say hey I

835
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:23,520
can remove yes I good what am I wearing

836
00:38:28,109 --> 00:38:26,380
and that makes them so mad they can

837
00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:28,119
Steve you're nude you're nude like an

838
00:38:33,780 --> 00:38:29,590
alien what do you do put some clothes on

839
00:38:36,660 --> 00:38:33,790
what are you doing okay Steve do you

840
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:36,670
think back to the crafts because I

841
00:38:41,070 --> 00:38:38,410
needed to ask you this question before I

842
00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:41,080
move on to the other questions I was

843
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:43,270
going to ask you and that is do you

844
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:44,850
think most or

845
00:38:52,220 --> 00:38:48,770
all of what looks like other kinds of

846
00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:52,230
well basically what is UFO to us an

847
00:38:57,770 --> 00:38:55,500
unknown or unfamiliar think could be

848
00:38:59,570 --> 00:38:57,780
ours then meaning the US government's or

849
00:39:02,210 --> 00:38:59,580
other first world governments around the

850
00:39:05,470 --> 00:39:02,220
world could it actually possibly be

851
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:05,480
technology that has not been shared with

852
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:07,770
public yes I do

853
00:39:14,540 --> 00:39:11,370
okay it's making it who's making it the

854
00:39:17,060 --> 00:39:14,550
single base program okay

855
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:17,070
this is DARPA involved with that I have

856
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:19,410
no idea okay I don't sit in on their

857
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:24,810
board meetings you don't have an in

858
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:28,500
there do you don't have anything like

859
00:39:30,620 --> 00:39:28,710
that

860
00:39:33,140 --> 00:39:30,630
right okay so I'm gonna go and get into

861
00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:33,150
the questions here I want to know Steve

862
00:39:39,590 --> 00:39:35,840
why did you get involved in UFO topic

863
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:39,600
well I've always been involved or

864
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:42,240
interested in the UFO topic as well as

865
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:45,600
Bigfoot and all this kind of crap as a

866
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:48,540
kid a little kid I can remember reading

867
00:39:53,690 --> 00:39:51,240
the Inquirer newspaper a long time ago

868
00:39:55,610 --> 00:39:53,700
my grandmother subscribed to that she

869
00:39:57,110 --> 00:39:55,620
always had it around the house and I was

870
00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:57,120
always fascinated about the old Indian

871
00:40:00,050 --> 00:39:58,530
stories where the Bigfoot would come

872
00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:00,060
running out of the bushes and take the

873
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:03,150
women back with them and I said well you

874
00:40:06,350 --> 00:40:04,680
know that's kid I said why they taking

875
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:06,360
the women won't they take them into herd

876
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:08,970
mill so that they were got an answer for

877
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:11,130
that mm-hmm but that always fascinated

878
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:12,210
me and I've always been hearing about

879
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:14,610
Bigfoot and Loch Ness monster and all

880
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:15,810
this kind of crap and I was reading

881
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:17,910
anything and everything and of course

882
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:22,530
UFOs was in there too and back in about

883
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:24,930
1990 I think it was I was talking to my

884
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:27,810
sister about US UFO report no it's not

885
00:40:33,820 --> 00:40:30,000
things she says you need to you need to

886
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:33,830
be a member of MUFON I said what's that

887
00:40:38,510 --> 00:40:36,330
well the mutual UFO network I said never

888
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:38,520
heard of it she says well you need to

889
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,410
join and I said okay how do I do that

890
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:42,480
she says well you have to be recommended

891
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:44,310
I said I don't know anybody in their

892
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:46,410
organization how come by Rica Mack Rica

893
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,110
not be recommended she said well I know

894
00:40:52,610 --> 00:40:50,880
the state director in Oklahoma I'll get

895
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,620
him to get you an application that's

896
00:40:58,100 --> 00:40:54,480
okay cool that was Chuck pine and

897
00:40:59,960 --> 00:40:58,110
Oklahoma and that's how I got in

898
00:41:01,880 --> 00:40:59,970
and I said alright man I'm gonna find

899
00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:01,890
out about UFO reports and all this kind

900
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:04,320
of stuff and I joined I think it was

901
00:41:09,140 --> 00:41:06,810
like $25 or 20 something like that and

902
00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:09,150
you get this journal every month then

903
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,820
I'm reading about everything and and I

904
00:41:17,870 --> 00:41:14,400
never was called to a meeting there was

905
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:17,880
no meetings going on and I was starting

906
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:19,260
to get a little discouraged about that

907
00:41:25,310 --> 00:41:22,440
and getting ready to I forget this it's

908
00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:25,320
not any good and I said I'll tell you

909
00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:26,430
what I'm gonna I'm gonna become a field

910
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:29,550
investigator and so the next time I read

911
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:31,680
up to my my application I said I'm going

912
00:41:36,740 --> 00:41:34,140
to be a field investigator and they said

913
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:36,750
well you need to buy the manual so I

914
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:39,330
said okay I think that was like $25 so I

915
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:41,880
bought that studied it and there's the

916
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:44,370
test is right there in it in the in the

917
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:46,310
manual there's a hundred question test

918
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:48,870
so I took that and I passed it so hey

919
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:50,520
I'm a field investigator now all right

920
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:53,460
and never heard anything else is just

921
00:41:59,390 --> 00:41:56,220
the same old thing the manual every day

922
00:42:02,480 --> 00:41:59,400
every month and or the journal rather

923
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:02,490
and I was about to get discouraged again

924
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:03,810
because I was not getting any kind of

925
00:42:08,540 --> 00:42:05,520
reports nobody said hey come and look at

926
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:08,550
this and nobody called me nothing so I

927
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:10,500
was just about ready to throw the talion

928
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:14,010
and I got a letter in the mail said hey

929
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:17,280
we're gonna have a MUFON meeting over

930
00:42:20,540 --> 00:42:18,900
here someone so and over in Dallas and

931
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:20,550
it's gonna be this time this day this

932
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:22,290
kind of thing so I ran over there and

933
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:26,160
all five of us showed up I'm looking

934
00:42:32,570 --> 00:42:29,040
around the room and I found out I was

935
00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:32,580
the only field investigator so I'm kind

936
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:33,840
of setting down scratching my head on

937
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:37,290
that one and a little known to me is

938
00:42:43,310 --> 00:42:39,300
about the month before I first signed up

939
00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:43,320
to begin with the the MUFON meeting

940
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:47,030
group that was there had a big fight and

941
00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:50,370
split up one went one way and one with

942
00:42:55,210 --> 00:42:51,780
the other direction and both directions

943
00:42:57,710 --> 00:42:55,220
were paranormal they all just scattered

944
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:57,720
and so we had to begin again and start

945
00:43:03,950 --> 00:42:58,050
over

946
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:03,960
he became a state director and and it

947
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:06,000
took us several years to build that

948
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:09,810
place up and you talk about signing

949
00:43:13,790 --> 00:43:11,730
reports there were very few

950
00:43:15,590 --> 00:43:13,800
foreign in between just to give you an

951
00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:15,600
example now this leads up to

952
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:18,750
Stephenville to give an example on

953
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:23,490
average Texas would get about two to

954
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:27,050
three reports a month if that

955
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:32,250
about the end of the year of 2007 I

956
00:43:37,099 --> 00:43:33,810
think it was or whatever the year before

957
00:43:39,170 --> 00:43:37,109
Stephenville honey was 2007 the report

958
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:39,180
started picking up in November and

959
00:43:44,410 --> 00:43:42,240
December and then of course in January

960
00:43:47,090 --> 00:43:44,420
in February they were just off the scale

961
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,100
and that's when the single girl thing

962
00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:48,960
hit there was just a lot of activity

963
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:52,260
going on all of a sudden out of the norm

964
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:54,450
and so we started picking up everything

965
00:43:59,720 --> 00:43:56,790
there but that's how I got him to move

966
00:44:00,800 --> 00:43:59,730
on okay and some of these questions are

967
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:00,810
going to be the kind where you would

968
00:44:04,609 --> 00:44:02,850
expand upon them like you just did which

969
00:44:06,290 --> 00:44:04,619
I'm very glad you did thank you and then

970
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:06,300
some are going to be very short one of

971
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:07,980
those short questions I have for you is

972
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:11,220
what it is a last UFO or MUFON related

973
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:12,810
conference you've attended and how did

974
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:16,400
that go the last one I attended was the

975
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:21,690
alien Con in Dallas it was like the was

976
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:24,359
that October November what was that said

977
00:44:29,930 --> 00:44:27,770
it was the end of last year okay and

978
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:29,940
they flew mark heading in from

979
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:32,220
headquarters and she was since I'm in

980
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:33,810
Fort Worth she wanted me over helping

981
00:44:38,450 --> 00:44:36,090
her me and my wife and we ran the table

982
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:38,460
there and it was I took my alien

983
00:44:44,030 --> 00:44:39,720
everybody's getting their photograph

984
00:44:45,470 --> 00:44:44,040
with them and they loved that people

985
00:44:49,340 --> 00:44:45,480
loved it man they loved that alien

986
00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:49,350
little kids alien that's wonderful

987
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:51,270
are you allowed to say where you got

988
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:54,090
that alien by the way yes I can tell you

989
00:44:59,630 --> 00:44:55,560
exactly where I got it is some kind of a

990
00:45:02,510 --> 00:44:59,640
funny story but uh the there was a

991
00:45:04,940 --> 00:45:02,520
couple of people that were dealers I

992
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:04,950
guess you could call them dealers the

993
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:07,530
the alien actually comes from is made in

994
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:10,410
Australia and the company that makes it

995
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,710
also makes dinosaurs for different parks

996
00:45:16,580 --> 00:45:15,359
and things they so they're they're good

997
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:16,590
with sculptures and stuff so they say

998
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:18,210
let's make an alien and see what happens

999
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:21,210
so they started selling these things I

1000
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,590
think they're like four hundred five

1001
00:45:28,890 --> 00:45:24,640
hundred dollars apiece

1002
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,900
and it's what 800

1003
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:30,880
oh it's 800 now my wife loves to correct

1004
00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:37,599
me please tell her we said hello Chan

1005
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:38,140
said hello

1006
00:45:45,059 --> 00:45:41,920
she said hi but anyway this this guy

1007
00:45:46,289 --> 00:45:45,069
that I talked with on Facebook all the

1008
00:45:47,849 --> 00:45:46,299
time he says hey Steve

1009
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:47,859
look at these alien sauce kind of thing

1010
00:45:51,299 --> 00:45:50,079
says I'm a guy that sells them and I'm a

1011
00:45:53,099 --> 00:45:51,309
dealer down here so we're good you can

1012
00:45:55,410 --> 00:45:53,109
post on my Facebook page and I'll

1013
00:45:58,890 --> 00:45:55,420
mention it in my radio show cuz I had

1014
00:46:01,819 --> 00:45:58,900
the Texas your radio show back there and

1015
00:46:05,549 --> 00:46:01,829
I did that for six years oh my god but

1016
00:46:07,049 --> 00:46:05,559
he says I said I said hey I'll ever ties

1017
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:07,059
it for you it's okay good they call me

1018
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:08,890
back in about a week hey Steve I got a

1019
00:46:12,539 --> 00:46:10,450
good deal for you and I said okay what

1020
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:12,549
cuz Here I am making plans on hey when

1021
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:14,079
income tax comes along I'm gonna buy one

1022
00:46:19,289 --> 00:46:16,480
of those aliens because I won't want and

1023
00:46:21,210 --> 00:46:19,299
he says the the company down in

1024
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:21,220
Australia says if you put a good word in

1025
00:46:26,460 --> 00:46:23,980
on your radio show and and do a

1026
00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:26,470
testimonial on the website that they'll

1027
00:46:32,819 --> 00:46:29,470
give you one as oh my god alright yeah

1028
00:46:34,769 --> 00:46:32,829
I'll say anything they want me to say I

1029
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:34,779
immediately went to their website and

1030
00:46:37,410 --> 00:46:36,130
just put all kinds of good stuff on

1031
00:46:40,589 --> 00:46:37,420
right I think it's still there to it

1032
00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:40,599
firmer right but he says I got another

1033
00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:42,190
good deal for you sir what's that he

1034
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:43,900
says we got another dealer - it's on the

1035
00:46:49,019 --> 00:46:46,930
south side of Fort Worth so I drove 20

1036
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:49,029
miles in the pickup and pick that stupid

1037
00:46:55,319 --> 00:46:53,049
thing up and drove it back gasps did you

1038
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:55,329
tell me you wanted an ET craft - that

1039
00:47:01,769 --> 00:46:59,680
would be great if they had okay so a

1040
00:47:03,870 --> 00:47:01,779
serious topic here wanted to ask you

1041
00:47:08,190 --> 00:47:03,880
about and tell me if I'm correct or not

1042
00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:08,200
but my assumption of MUFON when I think

1043
00:47:15,410 --> 00:47:11,470
about them is they investigate anything

1044
00:47:17,970 --> 00:47:15,420
et seemingly et related anything

1045
00:47:20,759 --> 00:47:17,980
ufo-related which to remind our

1046
00:47:23,609 --> 00:47:20,769
listeners as they do know so well it is

1047
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:23,619
unidentified flying objects I think that

1048
00:47:29,009 --> 00:47:25,720
really should be actually be changed to

1049
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:29,019
something else but anyway what UAP well

1050
00:47:33,390 --> 00:47:30,880
you know what I think I'd like to go

1051
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:33,400
ahead and create a whole new acronym are

1052
00:47:39,059 --> 00:47:37,210
you guys ready for it go ahead

1053
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:39,069
just remember I'm the person who coined

1054
00:47:51,059 --> 00:47:48,670
this whatever they are WTA WTS now that

1055
00:47:52,859 --> 00:47:51,069
sound might might sound super stupid but

1056
00:47:57,230 --> 00:47:52,869
I still think that would cover a lot

1057
00:48:03,299 --> 00:47:57,240
anyway but MUFON covers Forbes UFO

1058
00:48:06,089 --> 00:48:03,309
activity or UFOs is possible et whatever

1059
00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:06,099
is there anything else they cover so let

1060
00:48:11,540 --> 00:48:08,140
me ask you the question what topics do

1061
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:11,550
field investigators or folks and MUFON

1062
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:16,690
research and investigate we research UFO

1063
00:48:24,510 --> 00:48:23,530
reports which covers abductions they're

1064
00:48:27,420 --> 00:48:24,520
the umbrella

1065
00:48:30,690 --> 00:48:27,430
so basically contact experiences good

1066
00:48:34,049 --> 00:48:30,700
bad or indifferent okay yes and can you

1067
00:48:38,490 --> 00:48:34,059
please let the folks know more about

1068
00:48:40,260 --> 00:48:38,500
orbs now you were very clear about what

1069
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,270
you mentioned regarding orbs before

1070
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:41,920
which was great thank you for doing that

1071
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,730
but let's just say I'm Joe public and

1072
00:48:49,170 --> 00:48:47,200
and I come running to you and you're a

1073
00:48:52,109 --> 00:48:49,180
field investigator for MUFON and you're

1074
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:52,119
assigned to my case and I say hey mr.

1075
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,030
field investigator for MUFON I have

1076
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:58,000
pictures of orbs and I've seen orbs like

1077
00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:00,640
actually seen them all around me what

1078
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,190
what what are you gonna do you know as a

1079
00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:05,200
MUFON I'm going to say show me your

1080
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:09,670
photographs oh video too by the way okay

1081
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:12,130
and if it's a photograph you better show

1082
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:16,000
me more boiler than war because I'm

1083
00:49:19,950 --> 00:49:18,490
gonna look at the whole role because if

1084
00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:19,960
you're faking something you don't be

1085
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:21,700
faking it on that role or with a camera

1086
00:49:26,130 --> 00:49:23,920
or whatever and I'm gonna see it and

1087
00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:26,140
same thing with video video is as no

1088
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:28,030
isn't really not much different than a

1089
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:31,630
photograph I mean you can see strange

1090
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:34,270
anomalies on your film just as you can

1091
00:49:38,490 --> 00:49:37,119
own your video oh you're up that same as

1092
00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:38,500
the video as you can in your film it's

1093
00:49:45,690 --> 00:49:41,950
the same thing yeah is that just 30 yeah

1094
00:49:49,859 --> 00:49:45,700
30 images per second that's all yes and

1095
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:49,869
yeah that's true and to date I haven't

1096
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:51,250
seen much at all that

1097
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:53,410
well there's there's one photograph and

1098
00:49:59,339 --> 00:49:57,430
I I don't like talking about too much

1099
00:50:04,859 --> 00:49:59,349
because I company I can't pronounce the

1100
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:04,869
word of the word sat but it's I had it

1101
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:07,140
written down I can't find my paperwork

1102
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:10,960
I've slept since then but anyway that's

1103
00:50:13,950 --> 00:50:12,160
the only one that I have ever seen I

1104
00:50:16,890 --> 00:50:13,960
thought was authentic and it was two

1105
00:50:18,569 --> 00:50:16,900
different photographs and this woman we

1106
00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:18,579
had her son out and sons out playing the

1107
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:20,020
yard and in this thing floor was topped

1108
00:50:24,990 --> 00:50:23,260
for and she did you if the kid said

1109
00:50:28,349 --> 00:50:25,000
what's that she looked up she took two

1110
00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:28,359
photographs and it's a round object as a

1111
00:50:32,970 --> 00:50:30,430
three lights and triangle shape with a

1112
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:32,980
red light that's offset and in the

1113
00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:35,200
second photograph one of the white

1114
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:39,160
lights changes to a red light so I'm

1115
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:40,150
sitting there thinking to myself you

1116
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:43,569
know if I'm faking photographs I don't

1117
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:45,250
believe I would think to change the

1118
00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:47,440
color of that one red light to red light

1119
00:50:53,010 --> 00:50:50,020
just to be doing it I would just say

1120
00:51:01,230 --> 00:50:53,020
well here's the second photograph and so

1121
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:04,350
well our benefactor I've looked those

1122
00:51:08,580 --> 00:51:06,130
are fake tears right that kind of

1123
00:51:10,980 --> 00:51:08,590
discouraged me but to date I have not

1124
00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:10,990
seen anything but you can demonstrate

1125
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:14,230
there's uh there was a video that

1126
00:51:20,460 --> 00:51:16,240
someone took from way off they were out

1127
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:20,470
in the sticks and it was like a crisp

1128
00:51:23,550 --> 00:51:22,210
line of trees on the left line of trees

1129
00:51:25,410 --> 00:51:23,560
on the right and it's got a valley type

1130
00:51:27,210 --> 00:51:25,420
thing in the middle and you see like

1131
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:27,220
downtown I believe it was downtown here

1132
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:30,160
stuffing and he's out in the field and

1133
00:51:38,670 --> 00:51:34,870
all of a sudden in his video he has all

1134
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:38,680
these little objects flying around and

1135
00:51:43,890 --> 00:51:42,250
he says oh it's a bunch of spaceships

1136
00:51:45,930 --> 00:51:43,900
and there's they're invading and all

1137
00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:45,940
just making stuff up and I'm sitting

1138
00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:47,140
there going to myself okay let's

1139
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:49,990
reproduce this and I said because it was

1140
00:51:53,070 --> 00:51:51,850
a post on Facebook and I said well let's

1141
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:53,080
reproduce this let's go to the same

1142
00:51:58,290 --> 00:51:56,050
place we'll put a camera 30 feet apart

1143
00:52:00,000 --> 00:51:58,300
pointing the same direction and I'll go

1144
00:52:01,620 --> 00:52:00,010
down here and I'll throw a rock and all

1145
00:52:03,180 --> 00:52:01,630
this grass and crap down here and that's

1146
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:03,190
let's see what videos we get then

1147
00:52:05,820 --> 00:52:04,570
because are you gonna just start all the

1148
00:52:12,930 --> 00:52:05,830
bugs up because that's all it was is

1149
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:12,940
bugs okay great so I wanted to go or

1150
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:14,890
exif data very briefly and then move on

1151
00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:17,170
to the other questions and that is i'm

1152
00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:19,870
gonna let our our listeners know

1153
00:52:26,670 --> 00:52:22,260
something you already know and that is

1154
00:52:30,270 --> 00:52:26,680
exes exif data which is exif and that's

1155
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:30,280
something that Steve has had to deal

1156
00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:32,010
with for decades now regarding

1157
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:35,590
researching anything photo related it's

1158
00:52:40,350 --> 00:52:37,990
also sometimes referred to as metadata

1159
00:52:42,900 --> 00:52:40,360
it contains information such as aperture

1160
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:42,910
shutter speed ISO focal length camera

1161
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:45,520
model date the photo was taken and so

1162
00:52:51,630 --> 00:52:47,440
much more

1163
00:52:55,590 --> 00:52:51,640
so that also lets folks like Steve

1164
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,600
Hudgens and the MUFON organization know

1165
00:52:59,640 --> 00:52:57,760
when they're researching a photo or a

1166
00:53:01,950 --> 00:52:59,650
series of photos whether the photo has

1167
00:53:04,290 --> 00:53:01,960
been manipulated now I wanted to give

1168
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:04,300
folks an example of a really neat way to

1169
00:53:09,060 --> 00:53:06,370
see if a photo has possibly been

1170
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:09,070
manipulated and that doesn't mean it's

1171
00:53:13,050 --> 00:53:10,990
going to be the end-all to an answer

1172
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:13,060
whether a photo has been manipulated

1173
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:15,010
however but it's a neat thing to try

1174
00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:17,650
and that is if you go to one of many

1175
00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:21,430
online sites one is photo of forensics

1176
00:53:26,970 --> 00:53:25,630
comm s OTO forensics comm you can

1177
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:26,980
actually go to a part of their site

1178
00:53:31,470 --> 00:53:29,170
where you can upload a picture which I

1179
00:53:34,020 --> 00:53:31,480
did right now Alejandro Rojas I went

1180
00:53:37,530 --> 00:53:34,030
ahead and uploaded his picture and I hid

1181
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:37,540
after I uploaded it I hit upload to the

1182
00:53:42,300 --> 00:53:39,850
far right and it takes a while but

1183
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:42,310
finally when photo forensics uploads it

1184
00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:46,210
you can check out the grocery list of

1185
00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:48,580
information it captured on it which is

1186
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:51,430
it's under these categories digest ela

1187
00:53:56,970 --> 00:53:54,130
hidden pixels jpg percent made a date

1188
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,980
metadata and source information and it

1189
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:58,720
looks like this photo I have of him has

1190
00:54:02,910 --> 00:54:00,640
not been manipulated in any way shape or

1191
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:02,920
form you can also do the same thing if

1192
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:06,160
there's for example a site on the web

1193
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:09,610
that has pictures of UFOs or what

1194
00:54:13,470 --> 00:54:11,740
they're claiming to be ET crafts you

1195
00:54:15,170 --> 00:54:13,480
conclude the URL to that and it will

1196
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:15,180
show you if those photos have been

1197
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:18,430
possibly manipulated now Frank and I

1198
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:20,170
were talking about this last night and I

1199
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:21,850
really don't want to go into too long

1200
00:54:26,310 --> 00:54:23,950
because I'd like to continue on with my

1201
00:54:29,970 --> 00:54:26,320
interview it was Steve if but if a

1202
00:54:32,670 --> 00:54:29,980
person wanted to manipulate the data

1203
00:54:35,490 --> 00:54:32,680
regarding a photo they could and this

1204
00:54:37,830 --> 00:54:35,500
has been done before they could as an

1205
00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:37,840
idea paint something on the window of

1206
00:54:42,510 --> 00:54:40,020
their kitchen window for example and

1207
00:54:45,210 --> 00:54:42,520
make it look like you know some kind of

1208
00:54:48,180 --> 00:54:45,220
et related craft or what they think is

1209
00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:48,190
one and put a fleet of them on on on a

1210
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:51,550
window a paint paint them take a picture

1211
00:54:56,790 --> 00:54:54,250
of it in a very kind of blurred like

1212
00:54:58,590 --> 00:54:56,800
fashion or whatever fashion they think

1213
00:55:02,640 --> 00:54:58,600
would make it look real as though those

1214
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:02,650
fleets were in the sky and then then it

1215
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:04,090
would show that that picture has not

1216
00:55:11,310 --> 00:55:06,510
been manipulated when you go ahead and

1217
00:55:13,260 --> 00:55:11,320
try to analyze it through the exif data

1218
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:13,270
applications out there another way

1219
00:55:17,820 --> 00:55:15,130
person can do it is if they take a

1220
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:17,830
picture of a manipulated picture and

1221
00:55:22,710 --> 00:55:21,010
that could be one way is that correct

1222
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:22,720
Steve yes that's correct

1223
00:55:28,020 --> 00:55:25,870
but anytime someone takes a photo of

1224
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:28,030
something through the window I'm always

1225
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:28,960
thinking this subject

1226
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:31,690
to a second look thank you for

1227
00:55:35,940 --> 00:55:34,089
mentioning odd and basically if you do

1228
00:55:38,609 --> 00:55:35,950
your trickery in the camera and it's

1229
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,619
actually in the shot that you wouldn't

1230
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:40,240
be able to suss that out with the

1231
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:42,970
metadata but also Frank you made a good

1232
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:44,079
point last night when we were talking

1233
00:55:49,049 --> 00:55:46,450
about this and that is you were saying

1234
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:49,059
okay let's say we have a picture of

1235
00:55:54,660 --> 00:55:52,450
somebody who manipulated a picture to

1236
00:55:59,819 --> 00:55:54,670
make it look like there's some kind of

1237
00:56:03,859 --> 00:55:59,829
each or et craft outside for example

1238
00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:03,869
well if somebody takes a picture of that

1239
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:07,990
hide that related exif data you also

1240
00:56:10,589 --> 00:56:09,369
pointed out well that person needs to be

1241
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:10,599
outside during those same kind of

1242
00:56:14,819 --> 00:56:12,790
conditions otherwise the exif data from

1243
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:14,829
that picture of that manipulated picture

1244
00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:18,730
will also reveal exactly exactly

1245
00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:22,200
yep did I say that right yeah I think so

1246
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:25,300
okay so moving along here Steve I have

1247
00:56:32,430 --> 00:56:29,770
some more questions for you why is MUFON

1248
00:56:34,829 --> 00:56:32,440
relevant to the field of ufology oh

1249
00:56:37,890 --> 00:56:34,839
that's an easy question but back to this

1250
00:56:40,620 --> 00:56:37,900
other you're talking about the photo

1251
00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:40,630
with the UFO duct that's why I asked for

1252
00:56:45,180 --> 00:56:43,630
more than one photo okay good I mean I

1253
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:45,190
can take my cell phone to hold the

1254
00:56:48,539 --> 00:56:46,450
button down and take a thousand

1255
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:48,549
photographs right away I mean so don't

1256
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,930
just show me one photograph I want to

1257
00:56:55,650 --> 00:56:52,000
see more than one okay I'll tell you why

1258
00:56:59,220 --> 00:56:55,660
MUFON is relevant and it's because

1259
00:57:02,789 --> 00:56:59,230
they're the only group that has film

1260
00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:02,799
investigators that's the only reason

1261
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:04,809
all these other groups that come out

1262
00:57:08,670 --> 00:57:06,910
here and try to be the new MUFON or

1263
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:08,680
whatever you want to call them they

1264
00:57:12,270 --> 00:57:10,390
don't last long because they don't have

1265
00:57:13,859 --> 00:57:12,280
anybody joining them they don't have any

1266
00:57:14,370 --> 00:57:13,869
field investigators that go out and do

1267
00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:14,380
anything

1268
00:57:20,460 --> 00:57:16,569
not only that they do not have the name

1269
00:57:22,109 --> 00:57:20,470
recognition and that's that's something

1270
00:57:23,780 --> 00:57:22,119
else you know I always hear but when I

1271
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:23,790
talk to people I always say look how

1272
00:57:28,170 --> 00:57:26,559
these groups and say how many I mean

1273
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:28,180
here are MUFON investigators this is a

1274
00:57:34,140 --> 00:57:30,609
group 50 people how many people are

1275
00:57:36,210 --> 00:57:34,150
MUFON members and I don't know about 10%

1276
00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:36,220
may raise their hand everybody else is

1277
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:37,750
just there for a free ride the way I

1278
00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:40,480
look at it and I always say well you

1279
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,550
guys are jumping up and down and

1280
00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:45,280
thing about disclosure right yeah yeah

1281
00:57:50,670 --> 00:57:46,540
we want to know what's going on is okay

1282
00:57:52,350 --> 00:57:50,680
you have to have a voting base look at

1283
00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:52,360
all these other groups I don't want to

1284
00:57:56,430 --> 00:57:54,910
mention them but there are millions and

1285
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:56,440
millions of people in these groups and

1286
00:58:02,250 --> 00:57:59,200
they have a big voice in the government

1287
00:58:06,140 --> 00:58:02,260
I mean they listen to them if MUFON had

1288
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:06,150
6 or 7 million members I guarantee you

1289
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,570
we would be getting some attention and

1290
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:11,440
disclosure would be right down the

1291
00:58:16,380 --> 00:58:13,750
street so keep that in mind

1292
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:16,390
join MUFON period that's what's the

1293
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:18,130
Basset suggested that on our show you

1294
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,480
want to do something join MUFON and also

1295
00:58:28,020 --> 00:58:24,160
I just wanted to let our listeners know

1296
00:58:29,610 --> 00:58:28,030
if you're going to join MUFON a lot of

1297
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:29,620
people actually don't know how to even

1298
00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:32,410
do that so my first recommendation and

1299
00:58:36,270 --> 00:58:33,790
then Steve go ahead and please expound

1300
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:36,280
upon this if you don't mind folks please

1301
00:58:40,980 --> 00:58:38,530
go to MUFON comm what do they do when

1302
00:58:43,140 --> 00:58:40,990
they go go to MUFON comm ok up in the

1303
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:43,150
right-hand corner it says join MUFON if

1304
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:45,760
it's not there and you can't find it you

1305
00:58:52,140 --> 00:58:48,370
can email me I will help you out that's

1306
00:58:57,300 --> 00:58:52,150
I do i and MUFON comm I will help you

1307
00:59:01,950 --> 00:58:57,310
join so that's I do I international

1308
00:59:04,590 --> 00:59:01,960
director of Investigations for folks and

1309
00:59:07,380 --> 00:59:04,600
you can go ahead and address it by Steve

1310
00:59:09,150 --> 00:59:07,390
yeah yeah let me jump in here since that

1311
00:59:10,890 --> 00:59:09,160
we didn't bring that up Steve you are

1312
00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:10,900
the international director of

1313
00:59:15,390 --> 00:59:13,390
Investigations or the director of

1314
00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:15,400
international investigations how is that

1315
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:18,550
different than working domestically or

1316
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:21,850
running a state or okay there you go ask

1317
00:59:27,090 --> 00:59:24,310
well yeah I stole I stole that question

1318
00:59:28,650 --> 00:59:27,100
from you telepathically chat yeah you

1319
00:59:31,770 --> 00:59:28,660
did a good job because my next question

1320
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:31,780
was as a member of MUFON what is your

1321
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:33,610
role and what do you feel your role is

1322
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:36,450
and does for MUFON good job Frank Thanks

1323
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:39,690
okay I started out a long time ago as

1324
00:59:44,010 --> 00:59:42,130
chief investigator I move on I was

1325
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:44,020
actually the first chief investigator

1326
00:59:48,570 --> 00:59:46,090
when them when they first started it and

1327
00:59:49,860 --> 00:59:48,580
then they started graduating getting on

1328
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:49,870
and mostly cause of Stephenville and

1329
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:53,530
then there were problems and the state

1330
00:59:59,539 --> 00:59:55,440
director resigned

1331
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:59,549
and I said hey I raised my hand up I'll

1332
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:00,960
do two I'll be the stagger record that

1333
01:00:09,380 --> 01:00:06,240
kind of way and so after that I became

1334
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:09,390
the director of Investigations for the

1335
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:12,000
United for the USA and that was under

1336
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:17,520
Dave MacDonald and I held that for five

1337
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:21,660
or six years I forget now and at the end

1338
01:00:26,690 --> 01:00:23,609
of it there was some squabbling going on

1339
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:26,700
and some issues so I said look I don't

1340
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:27,839
want to do this anymore let somebody

1341
01:00:36,650 --> 01:00:30,720
else take it and so that that took place

1342
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:36,660
and then two days later if not three

1343
01:00:42,170 --> 01:00:39,359
Dave McDonald says I won't Steve to be

1344
01:00:45,620 --> 01:00:42,180
the ideal why because the guy that was

1345
01:00:49,069 --> 01:00:45,630
doing it was retiring at that moment so

1346
01:00:52,700 --> 01:00:49,079
I I took the ideal opposition but the

1347
01:00:55,099 --> 01:00:52,710
differences are there there's quite a

1348
01:01:00,859 --> 01:00:55,109
bit different of course the the u.s.

1349
01:01:03,549 --> 01:01:00,869
adli has been renamed is now MUFON chief

1350
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:03,559
investigator now and that's Doug out of

1351
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:07,920
Colorado and he's assumes that position

1352
01:01:18,799 --> 01:01:14,490
and it's uh it depends on who's doing it

1353
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:18,809
as to what they are doing with it if you

1354
01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:20,010
understand what I'm saying

1355
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:23,609
sure when I had it on there I know

1356
01:01:29,900 --> 01:01:25,920
Murray Mazon Malzahn had it before I did

1357
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:29,910
and she was one of these hands-on kind

1358
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:32,910
of people and she was not really what I

1359
01:01:37,579 --> 01:01:36,089
call meddlesome but she was always

1360
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:37,589
calling me on the phone Steve how's it

1361
01:01:40,970 --> 01:01:39,599
going every time she called me the first

1362
01:01:43,609 --> 01:01:40,980
thing first rattled out of the Hat I

1363
01:01:45,890 --> 01:01:43,619
said oh man what have I done now she's

1364
01:01:48,890 --> 01:01:45,900
calling me on the phone and it was just

1365
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,900
a courtesy call and and she did that

1366
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:51,119
three or four times and in each time I'm

1367
01:01:54,589 --> 01:01:53,250
I felt the same way you know oh man I'd

1368
01:01:57,019 --> 01:01:54,599
may enjoy it now because she's calling

1369
01:01:59,539 --> 01:01:57,029
me and so when when I took the do

1370
01:02:02,990 --> 01:01:59,549
opposition over I made a point that I

1371
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,000
was not going to do that I was not going

1372
01:02:08,329 --> 01:02:04,880
to meddle and what these guys are doing

1373
01:02:09,050 --> 01:02:08,339
and unless I just had to there was a

1374
01:02:10,970 --> 01:02:09,060
problem

1375
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:10,980
that's what I felt I was there for is

1376
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:13,680
I'm there if you have a problem and

1377
01:02:21,140 --> 01:02:17,450
that's the way I looked at it and I was

1378
01:02:22,940 --> 01:02:21,150
not in control of the field

1379
01:02:27,590 --> 01:02:22,950
investigators manual or the state

1380
01:02:30,770 --> 01:02:27,600
directors handbook but I was big-time in

1381
01:02:32,300 --> 01:02:30,780
on the editing part of it as well as the

1382
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:32,310
others on the senior staff and that's

1383
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,970
what senior staff does and and we look

1384
01:02:39,260 --> 01:02:37,680
at things we look at issues and if

1385
01:02:42,830 --> 01:02:39,270
there's a problem with something we'll

1386
01:02:45,170 --> 01:02:42,840
see what we can do about you know taking

1387
01:02:47,150 --> 01:02:45,180
care of that problem like reword this or

1388
01:02:48,500 --> 01:02:47,160
reword that or well that's no good let's

1389
01:02:51,170 --> 01:02:48,510
take that out in this changes of this

1390
01:02:53,060 --> 01:02:51,180
and there's ongoing progress and and we

1391
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:53,070
do it like Daniel E or whatever a matter

1392
01:02:57,290 --> 01:02:55,440
of fact I'm going through it right now

1393
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:57,300
of retyping everything so I've got a new

1394
01:03:04,790 --> 01:03:00,240
job now it's called the director of

1395
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:04,800
support services and I'm the keeper of

1396
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:08,280
the flame basically it's a like the feel

1397
01:03:13,580 --> 01:03:11,130
investigators manual it's it's worded in

1398
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:13,590
a certain way and you have a pristine

1399
01:03:19,610 --> 01:03:17,010
copy and I'm the keeper of that copy if

1400
01:03:21,290 --> 01:03:19,620
you know what I mean and it's the same

1401
01:03:22,610 --> 01:03:21,300
with the state directors handbook the

1402
01:03:27,470 --> 01:03:22,620
state directors handbook has been

1403
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:27,480
completely redone the last do I saw to

1404
01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:27,780
that

1405
01:03:34,550 --> 01:03:32,460
and so I'm in the middle now of course

1406
01:03:38,450 --> 01:03:34,560
it's been typed up already and it was

1407
01:03:40,670 --> 01:03:38,460
sent to me but the type is so small even

1408
01:03:42,050 --> 01:03:40,680
with my glasses I can hardly read it so

1409
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:42,060
I'm going through there basically and

1410
01:03:47,810 --> 01:03:43,440
I'm retyping the entire thing with a

1411
01:03:51,230 --> 01:03:47,820
larger font and I try to edit word and

1412
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:51,240
it's it's a nightmare to me editing word

1413
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:53,910
so I'm transferring all over to excel I

1414
01:03:57,260 --> 01:03:56,010
can use that a lot better cuz I'm I'm

1415
01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:57,270
used to using the Excel but anyway

1416
01:04:01,700 --> 01:03:58,170
that's what I'm doing right now in the

1417
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:01,710
middle of that and I'm also a part of

1418
01:04:06,410 --> 01:04:02,850
the Professional Standards

1419
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:06,420
administration and I'm taking care of

1420
01:04:11,870 --> 01:04:08,910
some problems now with people on

1421
01:04:14,450 --> 01:04:11,880
Facebook using the MUFON name when

1422
01:04:17,090 --> 01:04:14,460
they're not supposed to yeah right and

1423
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:17,100
that's an uphill battle I'm telling you

1424
01:04:22,849 --> 01:04:19,530
but yeah Stan I'm glad you mentioned

1425
01:04:25,729 --> 01:04:22,859
that thank you the the

1426
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:25,739
mci now which is the MUFON chief

1427
01:04:31,849 --> 01:04:28,650
investigator he is he's doing a great

1428
01:04:35,390 --> 01:04:31,859
job and he's doing some classes on how

1429
01:04:37,789 --> 01:04:35,400
to do form 30 and there's a big problem

1430
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:37,799
with form 30 and I'm sorry to say I was

1431
01:04:43,309 --> 01:04:39,089
in the big middle of that when it first

1432
01:04:46,219 --> 01:04:43,319
started well yeah what is that oil dirty

1433
01:04:48,199 --> 01:04:46,229
but we'll cover that in a minute yeah in

1434
01:04:50,779 --> 01:04:48,209
a minute let me let me go ahead I had to

1435
01:04:53,719 --> 01:04:50,789
ask you how long have you felt there

1436
01:04:55,309 --> 01:04:53,729
could be before asked this question let

1437
01:04:56,959 --> 01:04:55,319
me go ahead and just share something

1438
01:05:00,079 --> 01:04:56,969
that we all know because this came out

1439
01:05:03,650 --> 01:05:00,089
in the news recently as that Britain's

1440
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:03,660
first astronaut Helen Charmin believes

1441
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:06,209
that aliens actually exist as she

1442
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:07,170
believes that they could be on her

1443
01:05:10,669 --> 01:05:08,160
planet right now

1444
01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:10,679
is what she was quoted as basically

1445
01:05:14,209 --> 01:05:12,299
that's the gist of what she was saying

1446
01:05:16,519 --> 01:05:14,219
that they we may not be able to see them

1447
01:05:18,620 --> 01:05:16,529
but she believes they're here also just

1448
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:18,630
wanted to share something that other

1449
01:05:29,959 --> 01:05:26,599
companies like Amazon and Netflix are

1450
01:05:31,939 --> 01:05:29,969
sharing documentaries where they're

1451
01:05:35,689 --> 01:05:31,949
actually interviewing folks who are

1452
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:35,699
either with NASA now currently or have

1453
01:05:41,749 --> 01:05:38,400
worked for them and they're saying it's

1454
01:05:46,339 --> 01:05:41,759
not even a question whether et life

1455
01:05:48,469 --> 01:05:46,349
exists it's it's moving on from that now

1456
01:05:52,039 --> 01:05:48,479
you know they've already accepted that

1457
01:05:55,219 --> 01:05:52,049
and because of the the possibility of

1458
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,229
planets that are habitable out there so

1459
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:58,319
my question to you is how long have you

1460
01:06:02,829 --> 01:06:00,079
felt there could be the presence or

1461
01:06:08,839 --> 01:06:02,839
possibility of extraterrestrial

1462
01:06:10,839 --> 01:06:08,849
civilizations forever and if people that

1463
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:10,849
go to church would just realize what a

1464
01:06:15,709 --> 01:06:13,410
worshipping thing they would understand

1465
01:06:21,890 --> 01:06:15,719
that too because the definition of ET

1466
01:06:23,749 --> 01:06:21,900
god fits that perfectly ok and what was

1467
01:06:25,939 --> 01:06:23,759
the defining moment in your life that

1468
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:25,949
convinced you extraterrestrials exist

1469
01:06:29,689 --> 01:06:27,660
did you have a moment where you were I'm

1470
01:06:32,359 --> 01:06:29,699
just going to make this up you know you

1471
01:06:35,959 --> 01:06:32,369
were a kid and something happened to you

1472
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:35,969
or you were listening to a story what

1473
01:06:39,020 --> 01:06:36,720
what was

1474
01:06:42,380 --> 01:06:39,030
that one defining moment where you said

1475
01:06:43,340 --> 01:06:42,390
you know what that kind of really that

1476
01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:43,350
does it for me

1477
01:06:48,770 --> 01:06:47,070
what was there one or no I have not have

1478
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:48,780
not had that defining moment now just

1479
01:06:53,390 --> 01:06:50,400
the possibility exists it's pretty

1480
01:06:57,890 --> 01:06:53,400
powerful with me okay and have you or

1481
01:07:00,500 --> 01:06:57,900
someone you know personally like a just

1482
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:00,510
someone close to you have you or someone

1483
01:07:05,060 --> 01:07:02,490
you know ever witnessed UFO activity

1484
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:05,070
that could have been extraterrestrial

1485
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:10,410
related yes can you share anything about

1486
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:15,690
well it was it was a how to explain this

1487
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:17,970
um brother-in-law

1488
01:07:23,530 --> 01:07:22,170
yeah no not a brother-in-law I forget

1489
01:07:26,030 --> 01:07:23,540
he's married to one of my

1490
01:07:29,210 --> 01:07:26,040
sister-in-law's daughters okay

1491
01:07:30,950 --> 01:07:29,220
anyway something like yeah but anyway he

1492
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:30,960
he told me one day he had a car Brody's

1493
01:07:36,620 --> 01:07:32,850
car broke down north of Fort Worth up

1494
01:07:41,780 --> 01:07:36,630
here and someone stopped and helped him

1495
01:07:43,370 --> 01:07:41,790
and he doesn't remember anything for a

1496
01:07:47,170 --> 01:07:43,380
little while and then he remembers he's

1497
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:47,180
sitting in his car and I said whoa

1498
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:50,880
okay well this looked like he never

1499
01:07:54,050 --> 01:07:52,290
would tell me for years but he finally

1500
01:07:55,070 --> 01:07:54,060
told me he said he said I haven't told

1501
01:07:58,220 --> 01:07:55,080
you this he said but the guy looked

1502
01:08:02,060 --> 01:07:58,230
exactly like me I thought that was got

1503
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:02,070
strange but anyway he's he's no longer

1504
01:08:07,970 --> 01:08:06,420
alive he committed suicide okay so that

1505
01:08:09,860 --> 01:08:07,980
kind of brings up something that I just

1506
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:09,870
want to go off off my questions just for

1507
01:08:13,070 --> 01:08:11,250
a moment and tell you something Jan

1508
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:13,080
Harsin shared with us when we were

1509
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:15,810
interviewing him last year and then I

1510
01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:18,000
want to ask you something sort of about

1511
01:08:23,330 --> 01:08:20,550
that and that is John was saying that he

1512
01:08:27,890 --> 01:08:23,340
had the opportunity to do research and

1513
01:08:30,830 --> 01:08:27,900
talk to I think in person a cop who told

1514
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:30,840
him that he had a very strange

1515
01:08:39,350 --> 01:08:34,530
experience where he was actually seeing

1516
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:39,360
things that were not in the reality and

1517
01:08:45,620 --> 01:08:42,960
being shared by others so and that was

1518
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:45,630
investigated by MUFON now you'll have

1519
01:08:50,599 --> 01:08:49,650
dust gen more about that topic but would

1520
01:08:53,149 --> 01:08:50,609
it be fair to say

1521
01:08:54,499 --> 01:08:53,159
and I think he said he saw like he may

1522
01:08:56,599 --> 01:08:54,509
have communicated with an otherworldly

1523
01:09:00,530 --> 01:08:56,609
intelligence while that was happening

1524
01:09:02,209 --> 01:09:00,540
that would be a MUFON related like if

1525
01:09:05,269 --> 01:09:02,219
somebody were to report that to MUFON

1526
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:05,279
MUFON could consider investigating

1527
01:09:10,490 --> 01:09:07,290
something like that where it depends on

1528
01:09:12,859 --> 01:09:10,500
how they worded in my book okay because

1529
01:09:14,570 --> 01:09:12,869
you could add well it was a ghost or

1530
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:14,580
well Bigfoot was talking to me or a

1531
01:09:19,970 --> 01:09:16,409
fairy or something like that if it's not

1532
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:19,980
you have related mm-hmm like this thing

1533
01:09:22,849 --> 01:09:21,359
stepped off of UFO and it started

1534
01:09:24,349 --> 01:09:22,859
communicating with me well then yeah

1535
01:09:28,579 --> 01:09:24,359
yeah we would investigate something like

1536
01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:28,589
that but I don't know if that might go

1537
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:31,230
down as information only okay all right

1538
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:33,330
so are you currently involved or have

1539
01:09:39,140 --> 01:09:35,850
you had any past involvement in

1540
01:09:39,919 --> 01:09:39,150
extraterrestrial contact of any kind not

1541
01:09:43,579 --> 01:09:39,929
to my knowledge

1542
01:09:45,890 --> 01:09:43,589
okay and please okay well this is kind

1543
01:09:47,450 --> 01:09:45,900
of a big question you already shared the

1544
01:09:51,260 --> 01:09:47,460
Stephenville and maybe a few other cases

1545
01:09:54,019 --> 01:09:51,270
but do you have a list of maybe iconic

1546
01:09:55,790 --> 01:09:54,029
or interesting or famous cases that

1547
01:09:59,649 --> 01:09:55,800
influenced you regarding the most

1548
01:10:03,890 --> 01:09:59,659
evidence of possible extraterrestrial

1549
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:03,900
presence or the yes the the evidence

1550
01:10:08,270 --> 01:10:06,090
part is the real killer on all of this

1551
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:08,280
okay I mean a lot of people say well

1552
01:10:13,879 --> 01:10:10,290
what they said that was evidence and all

1553
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:13,889
these photos that's evidence and they're

1554
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:16,770
missing the big point and my big point

1555
01:10:23,180 --> 01:10:20,610
is no matter what you have you have to

1556
01:10:25,070 --> 01:10:23,190
convince 12 people in a courtroom that

1557
01:10:28,609 --> 01:10:25,080
have no idea what you're talking about

1558
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:28,619
you have to convince them and that's the

1559
01:10:33,169 --> 01:10:30,449
tough part I'm glad you said that

1560
01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:33,179
because this might not sound related but

1561
01:10:39,050 --> 01:10:37,230
it is so there's conspiracies as you

1562
01:10:41,959 --> 01:10:39,060
know that will float around the UFO

1563
01:10:46,879 --> 01:10:41,969
community and there's absolutely no

1564
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:46,889
conclusive evidence or proof - or facts

1565
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:50,010
behind them and I've told people ad

1566
01:10:56,570 --> 01:10:53,610
nauseam okay we need more information on

1567
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:56,580
this let's compile it together so we can

1568
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:59,280
do research to see the veracity or the

1569
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:00,960
authenticity of the claims being made

1570
01:11:06,340 --> 01:11:03,920
and all people can do is just spout

1571
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:06,350
propaganda about them and you're saying

1572
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:09,410
something important and that is okay you

1573
01:11:13,780 --> 01:11:11,510
feel you have such a good case let's

1574
01:11:17,140 --> 01:11:13,790
hear it if you if you can produce it in

1575
01:11:20,260 --> 01:11:17,150
front of 12 people like you're in a

1576
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:20,270
trial what it is it so that we can hear

1577
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:22,610
how great this case is that's correct

1578
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:27,530
and I just watched a a History Channel

1579
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:31,489
thing the other day with a very well

1580
01:11:35,740 --> 01:11:32,690
known I'm not gonna mention any names

1581
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:35,750
felt well-known investigator and she was

1582
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:38,210
producing pieces of metal that were

1583
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:40,640
supposedly found on Roswell and all this

1584
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:43,489
kind of right yes and okay wow you got

1585
01:11:48,490 --> 01:11:46,489
cement metal and I'm going yeah right I

1586
01:11:50,590 --> 01:11:48,500
saw some bent metal too up in Aurora

1587
01:11:53,380 --> 01:11:50,600
Texas that came from the Aurora ship

1588
01:11:56,410 --> 01:11:53,390
that crashed I said but so what it's

1589
01:11:57,850 --> 01:11:56,420
aluminum and aluminum is found all over

1590
01:11:59,709 --> 01:11:57,860
the place on the planet Earth I don't

1591
01:12:01,360 --> 01:11:59,719
care what quantity is or how thick it is

1592
01:12:04,330 --> 01:12:01,370
or if it's in layers it doesn't make any

1593
01:12:11,169 --> 01:12:04,340
difference to me it doesn't mean it came

1594
01:12:13,810 --> 01:12:11,179
from Alpha Centauri right agreed and so

1595
01:12:18,100 --> 01:12:13,820
so when people say oh well I found

1596
01:12:21,729 --> 01:12:18,110
something that has a look it looks and

1597
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:21,739
acts like it's not the conventional

1598
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:27,650
kinds of metal or metal exotic materials

1599
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:30,050
but acts like no metal ore minerals

1600
01:12:34,419 --> 01:12:31,760
known to man on planet Earth you

1601
01:12:37,060 --> 01:12:34,429
probably wouldn't be beyond you to

1602
01:12:39,729 --> 01:12:37,070
probably say okay well let's get it

1603
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:39,739
forensic ly analyzed in a scientific

1604
01:12:43,780 --> 01:12:41,210
manner you know according to a

1605
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:43,790
scientific model that we use for MUFON

1606
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:46,850
so we know more information on this is

1607
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:47,570
that right

1608
01:12:52,540 --> 01:12:50,090
well that's true I mean simply because

1609
01:12:54,610 --> 01:12:52,550
someone sees something that's fancy and

1610
01:12:56,850 --> 01:12:54,620
and they've never seen it before doesn't

1611
01:12:59,080 --> 01:12:56,860
mean it comes from outer space I mean if

1612
01:13:01,720 --> 01:12:59,090
if someone probably wanted to take that

1613
01:13:04,209 --> 01:13:01,730
and and and manufacturers so you're

1614
01:13:06,459 --> 01:13:04,219
gonna throw it down on the floor and it

1615
01:13:08,530 --> 01:13:06,469
wraps up your Christmas present since

1616
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:08,540
automatically you know hey that's a lot

1617
01:13:13,510 --> 01:13:10,850
ours now but it doesn't mean anything

1618
01:13:15,310 --> 01:13:13,520
it's just something we've never seen and

1619
01:13:17,470 --> 01:13:15,320
it's probably manufactured from the

1620
01:13:19,930 --> 01:13:17,480
government since it's here

1621
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:19,940
right so I mean I guess my point here is

1622
01:13:37,330 --> 01:13:34,960
the public know that there's a

1623
01:13:38,470 --> 01:13:37,340
difference because a dirt road okay

1624
01:13:39,310 --> 01:13:38,480
you're looking under you're at the edge

1625
01:13:43,270 --> 01:13:39,320
of a dirt road and you're looking across

1626
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:43,280
to the other side and you think that you

1627
01:13:45,340 --> 01:13:44,690
can walk over there the other side and

1628
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:45,350
walk back

1629
01:13:49,450 --> 01:13:47,840
so you set there well how many steps is

1630
01:13:51,220 --> 01:13:49,460
that gonna take so you you count those

1631
01:13:53,410 --> 01:13:51,230
steps you time those steps and said well

1632
01:13:54,820 --> 01:13:53,420
if I if I walk slow how long will it

1633
01:13:56,380 --> 01:13:54,830
take if I walk fast how long will it

1634
01:13:58,840 --> 01:13:56,390
take when I run how long will it take

1635
01:14:01,090 --> 01:13:58,850
so there's your theory your theory is

1636
01:14:05,950 --> 01:14:01,100
you can cross that road but until you do

1637
01:14:07,900 --> 01:14:05,960
and get back it's not a fact yet once

1638
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:07,910
you do it once it's a fact you do it

1639
01:14:14,140 --> 01:14:11,210
twice it's a scientific fact so until

1640
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:14,150
you can prove it it's a theory and also

1641
01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:18,890
up oddly and I agree there is contention

1642
01:14:23,220 --> 01:14:21,110
and it's still a hot-button Hot Topic

1643
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:23,230
debate in the scientific community

1644
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:26,930
regarding what proof really consists of

1645
01:14:32,740 --> 01:14:30,250
however a person who's an investigator

1646
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:32,750
researcher or fill in the blank

1647
01:14:40,030 --> 01:14:36,440
needs to still try to aspire to the

1648
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:40,040
closest thing concerning what proof is

1649
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:43,130
that way it will help satisfy the

1650
01:14:47,650 --> 01:14:44,810
ability to review it in a scientific

1651
01:14:49,780 --> 01:14:47,660
manner whatever it is right yes you can

1652
01:14:51,850 --> 01:14:49,790
even have an alien stand in there but

1653
01:14:54,010 --> 01:14:51,860
until you can prove it in court that

1654
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:54,020
it's an alien not something fabricated

1655
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:55,730
it's on the United States soil right on

1656
01:14:59,890 --> 01:14:58,130
the ground right then that's just a

1657
01:15:02,830 --> 01:14:59,900
mannequin or it's just an animal or

1658
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:02,840
whatever you have there hologram well if

1659
01:15:08,050 --> 01:15:04,610
you have it in in right there and within

1660
01:15:09,820 --> 01:15:08,060
court with you okay doesn't prove where

1661
01:15:11,380 --> 01:15:09,830
it came from you know people are

1662
01:15:15,190 --> 01:15:11,390
hard-headed that's what I'm trying to

1663
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:15,200
say I agree I agree in other words some

1664
01:15:19,870 --> 01:15:17,840
sometimes not always but sometimes you

1665
01:15:23,650 --> 01:15:19,880
can't give enough evidence or proof you

1666
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:23,660
need to really like go as far as you can

1667
01:15:27,610 --> 01:15:25,370
with it until you cannot go any more

1668
01:15:29,620 --> 01:15:27,620
regarding as much conclusive evidence or

1669
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:29,630
proof as you possibly can to cover all

1670
01:15:33,580 --> 01:15:31,970
your science related bases right well

1671
01:15:35,170 --> 01:15:33,590
I'll just jump in here and I'll clear

1672
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:35,180
this up a little bit at least from my

1673
01:15:39,790 --> 01:15:37,130
perspective the proof is proof you

1674
01:15:41,740 --> 01:15:39,800
proved something okay that's proof and

1675
01:15:43,450 --> 01:15:41,750
then there's evidence and some evidence

1676
01:15:47,050 --> 01:15:43,460
is better than others

1677
01:15:48,610 --> 01:15:47,060
okay and radar wanted to ask and this is

1678
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:48,620
something Frank can touch on too of

1679
01:15:53,020 --> 01:15:51,290
course because he he knows a lot more

1680
01:15:56,710 --> 01:15:53,030
about this than I do and I know Steve

1681
01:15:59,890 --> 01:15:56,720
does Steve why is radar evidence

1682
01:16:02,890 --> 01:15:59,900
considered evidence why does so so let's

1683
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:02,900
just say I'm a witness I saw some things

1684
01:16:07,420 --> 01:16:05,210
flying traversing the sky very fast I

1685
01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:07,430
called the military and they actually

1686
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:10,340
said I mean I'm a reporter and they said

1687
01:16:16,300 --> 01:16:12,830
yep we got it on radar does that mean

1688
01:16:19,150 --> 01:16:16,310
that and and it's it's not anything that

1689
01:16:21,490 --> 01:16:19,160
anybody knows what it is okay it's on

1690
01:16:27,310 --> 01:16:21,500
radar and even the military doesn't know

1691
01:16:31,180 --> 01:16:27,320
what it is okay so does that is that

1692
01:16:32,350 --> 01:16:31,190
proof of a UFO it's proof of something

1693
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:32,360
there that no they don't know what it is

1694
01:16:39,190 --> 01:16:35,930
so that's an unknown yes okay from it it

1695
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:39,200
doesn't identify it right right okay and

1696
01:16:44,170 --> 01:16:42,320
so Frank why is radar considered well

1697
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:44,180
it's a form of remote sensing it's just

1698
01:16:47,140 --> 01:16:46,400
like with a seismograph in relation to

1699
01:16:52,540 --> 01:16:47,150
earthquakes

1700
01:16:54,310 --> 01:16:52,550
go but the seismograph I records the

1701
01:16:57,660 --> 01:16:54,320
shaking of the ground and how intense it

1702
01:17:00,280 --> 01:16:57,670
was and that provides evidence that

1703
01:17:02,050 --> 01:17:00,290
physical evidence that an earthquake did

1704
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:02,060
take place good

1705
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:04,610
okay so Steve moving along here if you

1706
01:17:09,630 --> 01:17:07,370
had one or a few things that represent

1707
01:17:17,370 --> 01:17:09,640
how you feel about the topic of ufology

1708
01:17:23,770 --> 01:17:20,380
yeah it's such a general question you

1709
01:17:27,550 --> 01:17:23,780
had one or a few things to say and that

1710
01:17:31,330 --> 01:17:27,560
represent how you feel but you think

1711
01:17:35,770 --> 01:17:31,340
what you believe however you want to to

1712
01:17:38,710 --> 01:17:35,780
express your whatever the topic of

1713
01:17:41,730 --> 01:17:38,720
ufology okay what would it be I would

1714
01:17:46,810 --> 01:17:41,740
think that it would be the question of

1715
01:17:49,570 --> 01:17:46,820
like why why is the government if they

1716
01:17:52,420 --> 01:17:49,580
are suppressing all of this knowledge

1717
01:17:55,449 --> 01:17:52,430
about UFO activity and the possibility

1718
01:17:58,479 --> 01:17:55,459
of extraterrestrial it

1719
01:18:04,929 --> 01:17:58,489
what is so important about it that they

1720
01:18:06,399 --> 01:18:04,939
feel in these keys oh you're breaking up

1721
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:06,409
a little bit Steve at this point but

1722
01:18:11,109 --> 01:18:08,570
that yeah let me jump in and say I think

1723
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:11,119
that hasn't been proven that they that

1724
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:13,280
the government the Navy is basically

1725
01:18:18,069 --> 01:18:15,650
admitted that some of the information

1726
01:18:22,239 --> 01:18:18,079
related to the UFO cases that they've

1727
01:18:23,859 --> 01:18:22,249
got on record is would present a I

1728
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:23,869
believe the exact quote was a grave

1729
01:18:28,270 --> 01:18:26,570
danger to national security so they're

1730
01:18:31,959 --> 01:18:28,280
pretty much saying that that's the case

1731
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:31,969
I would say that that is proof what

1732
01:18:36,669 --> 01:18:33,650
they're saying their grave deal to

1733
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:36,679
national security is that they don't

1734
01:18:43,719 --> 01:18:40,610
want to expose whatever aircraft was

1735
01:18:47,069 --> 01:18:43,729
copied and videoed that doesn't

1736
01:18:50,979 --> 01:18:47,079
necessarily mean it's from outer space

1737
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:50,989
right right right but it Dave runs that

1738
01:18:55,390 --> 01:18:53,570
but but it does pretty well prove that

1739
01:18:58,779 --> 01:18:55,400
yeah they're aware of it they're looking

1740
01:19:01,469 --> 01:18:58,789
at this information and they're not and

1741
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:01,479
they're not sharing that information

1742
01:19:05,290 --> 01:19:03,530
right and they're keeping the secret

1743
01:19:08,919 --> 01:19:05,300
which brings me back to my question is

1744
01:19:13,660 --> 01:19:08,929
why what's the big deal about keeping it

1745
01:19:17,979 --> 01:19:13,670
secret that's my question

1746
01:19:19,509 --> 01:19:17,989
got it okay okay I agree and also I just

1747
01:19:21,910 --> 01:19:19,519
wanted to go ahead and bring something

1748
01:19:23,379 --> 01:19:21,920
to the attention of her listeners and

1749
01:19:26,949 --> 01:19:23,389
it's just something that Frank and Steve

1750
01:19:30,370 --> 01:19:26,959
already know about but that is it was a

1751
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:30,380
January this year apparently the US

1752
01:19:35,890 --> 01:19:33,530
government said that top-secret UFO

1753
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:35,900
FILES could cause grave damage to US

1754
01:19:42,850 --> 01:19:38,510
national security if released the Navy

1755
01:19:47,020 --> 01:19:42,860
said and also it was just a few years

1756
01:19:51,399 --> 01:19:47,030
ago when the glowing Aras and black

1757
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:51,409
money of the article came out and that

1758
01:19:57,879 --> 01:19:54,650
was an interesting article in that in

1759
01:20:00,100 --> 01:19:57,889
that Jan horizon-- and many others in

1760
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:00,110
the UFO community believed that that was

1761
01:20:05,469 --> 01:20:02,449
a form of disclosure regarding the

1762
01:20:07,870 --> 01:20:05,479
gamble to go fast and we'll basically

1763
01:20:09,490 --> 01:20:07,880
three UFO related videos including

1764
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:09,500
tick-tock video

1765
01:20:15,310 --> 01:20:11,930
that the US government acknowledged that

1766
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:15,320
was a form of disclosure now wanted to

1767
01:20:20,980 --> 01:20:18,530
ask you a few more questions and that is

1768
01:20:23,650 --> 01:20:20,990
who are some of the iconic you fall just

1769
01:20:27,700 --> 01:20:23,660
you admire and respect regarding their

1770
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:27,710
serious related UFO research their

1771
01:20:38,550 --> 01:20:31,370
research well Stanton Friedman but he's

1772
01:20:41,710 --> 01:20:38,560
not here any longer there's there's not

1773
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:41,720
that many of them because I think

1774
01:20:48,940 --> 01:20:45,290
they're basically copying each other for

1775
01:20:51,670 --> 01:20:48,950
the most part and as far as researching

1776
01:20:53,440 --> 01:20:51,680
you know what are they researching they

1777
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:53,450
they don't take any kind of UFO reports

1778
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:55,610
and do them like a field investigator

1779
01:21:00,790 --> 01:20:57,440
would so what is what are they

1780
01:21:02,830 --> 01:21:00,800
researching I mean I can get on the

1781
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:02,840
internet and research UFOs all day long

1782
01:21:09,810 --> 01:21:06,410
does that make me an expert no so it you

1783
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:09,820
know that they're doing good work but

1784
01:21:14,380 --> 01:21:11,930
I've been doing a lot of work too and I

1785
01:21:16,690 --> 01:21:14,390
don't have a book out there for sale so

1786
01:21:19,180 --> 01:21:16,700
when they start throwing books out I

1787
01:21:21,730 --> 01:21:19,190
kind of that started red flags me and

1788
01:21:27,490 --> 01:21:21,740
they're just doing it for their own

1789
01:21:31,570 --> 01:21:27,500
profits we know it doesn't making it

1790
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:31,580
worse to me I just my opinion but to

1791
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:33,770
this date what has it been 50 years

1792
01:21:38,620 --> 01:21:34,970
there's all this that's been cooking and

1793
01:21:42,130 --> 01:21:38,630
more than that yeah we really gained

1794
01:21:43,390 --> 01:21:42,140
anything so I agree they they're doing

1795
01:21:46,150 --> 01:21:43,400
all the research all they can all that

1796
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:46,160
but they're not getting anywhere winning

1797
01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:49,040
or fast that's I don't see any

1798
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:51,760
advantages right so like for example

1799
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:01,780
yeah yeah give people a tough on the

1800
01:22:05,620 --> 01:22:03,520
back I'm just being you know I'm just

1801
01:22:08,050 --> 01:22:05,630
let me go and share with you what I'm

1802
01:22:10,990 --> 01:22:08,060
trying to say there are talk show hosts

1803
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:11,000
out there who have also studied the

1804
01:22:18,910 --> 01:22:15,050
topic of ufology for decades and they

1805
01:22:22,660 --> 01:22:18,920
are going along with and so are you have

1806
01:22:24,340 --> 01:22:22,670
some UFO researchers going along with

1807
01:22:26,260 --> 01:22:24,350
conspiracies that are floating out there

1808
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:26,270
instead of actually investigating him

1809
01:22:31,810 --> 01:22:28,210
and Frank and I spent months

1810
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:31,820
investigating two conspiracies that were

1811
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:34,010
floating around the UFO community and I

1812
01:22:39,550 --> 01:22:37,250
found out that these alleged documents

1813
01:22:43,510 --> 01:22:39,560
that claimed a lot of really amazing

1814
01:22:46,270 --> 01:22:43,520
things cannot stand as authentic in

1815
01:22:48,870 --> 01:22:46,280
their entirety because we found a lot of

1816
01:22:51,729 --> 01:22:48,880
discrepancies regarding them however

1817
01:22:55,780 --> 01:22:51,739
what I did notice is there's an awful

1818
01:22:58,450 --> 01:22:55,790
lot of these UFO researchers who claim

1819
01:23:00,400 --> 01:22:58,460
to be serious UFO researchers and and

1820
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:00,410
have been around for decades in the UFO

1821
01:23:04,900 --> 01:23:02,690
community they're just making money off

1822
01:23:06,580 --> 01:23:04,910
of these clint these conspiracies on

1823
01:23:08,530 --> 01:23:06,590
their talk shows they're not

1824
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:08,540
investigating them even though these

1825
01:23:12,459 --> 01:23:10,610
folks claim to be researchers and

1826
01:23:14,919 --> 01:23:12,469
investigators they're just making money

1827
01:23:19,510 --> 01:23:14,929
off the claims and I'll say that there

1828
01:23:21,729 --> 01:23:19,520
there's a value in research that doesn't

1829
01:23:24,100 --> 01:23:21,739
involve a field investigations I've

1830
01:23:26,169 --> 01:23:24,110
never done any of that and I still think

1831
01:23:27,340 --> 01:23:26,179
that there's value in archival research

1832
01:23:30,220 --> 01:23:27,350
there's a lot of material that's

1833
01:23:32,169 --> 01:23:30,230
available online and another thing is a

1834
01:23:34,630 --> 01:23:32,179
lot of it's been out there to the point

1835
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:34,640
where it gets forgotten or glossed over

1836
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:39,770
and that material has value that again

1837
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:41,570
now like I say it gets I glossed over

1838
01:23:45,370 --> 01:23:43,730
sometimes have forgotten or there are

1839
01:23:48,370 --> 01:23:45,380
things that are sitting out there sort

1840
01:23:49,870 --> 01:23:48,380
of waiting to be discovered and the nice

1841
01:23:51,939 --> 01:23:49,880
thing about the field at least in my

1842
01:23:55,180 --> 01:23:51,949
view is there are a lot of different

1843
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:55,190
ways to make contributions to add new

1844
01:24:00,220 --> 01:23:57,530
information that you know addy

1845
01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:00,230
nationally as one guy works as part of

1846
01:24:05,350 --> 01:24:02,960
his job with the FLIR technology so when

1847
01:24:07,150 --> 01:24:05,360
he can jump in and talk about some of

1848
01:24:09,580 --> 01:24:07,160
these FLIR videos that have gotten

1849
01:24:12,790 --> 01:24:09,590
released that that provides some real

1850
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:12,800
value because you know I don't work with

1851
01:24:17,979 --> 01:24:14,449
FLIR technology he knows more about it

1852
01:24:19,450 --> 01:24:17,989
than I do so why not ask him about it he

1853
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:19,460
has his own YouTube channel where he

1854
01:24:24,850 --> 01:24:22,010
posts these videos and analyzes and

1855
01:24:28,030 --> 01:24:24,860
reproduces different types of aircraft

1856
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:28,040
that are flying around and no shows okay

1857
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:31,280
here's here's this particular video of a

1858
01:24:36,070 --> 01:24:33,650
jet and this is what it looks like on

1859
01:24:37,420 --> 01:24:36,080
FLIR so that kind of thing

1860
01:24:38,830 --> 01:24:37,430
one of the great things about the field

1861
01:24:41,020 --> 01:24:38,840
is there are a lot of different ways to

1862
01:24:42,820 --> 01:24:41,030
make contributions there's no there's no

1863
01:24:44,230 --> 01:24:42,830
one way to make a contribution to the

1864
01:24:47,050 --> 01:24:44,240
UFO field there are a lot of different

1865
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:47,060
ways okay Steve I had a question for you

1866
01:24:52,570 --> 01:24:50,930
that's a little complex and that is do

1867
01:24:55,060 --> 01:24:52,580
you believe the scientific and

1868
01:24:57,610 --> 01:24:55,070
journalistic communities are purposely

1869
01:25:00,250 --> 01:24:57,620
ignoring the possibility of the presence

1870
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:00,260
or existence of extraterrestrial

1871
01:25:05,350 --> 01:25:02,690
civilizations if so why yes and I can

1872
01:25:08,650 --> 01:25:05,360
tell you exactly why it's because the

1873
01:25:12,580 --> 01:25:08,660
UFO topic is surrounded in the same room

1874
01:25:16,540 --> 01:25:12,590
as paranormal and I've been trying my

1875
01:25:18,910 --> 01:25:16,550
hardest to get that separated by on my

1876
01:25:21,310 --> 01:25:18,920
radio show I would ask people what is

1877
01:25:23,890 --> 01:25:21,320
the connection between UFOs and

1878
01:25:27,820 --> 01:25:23,900
paranormal you should see the question

1879
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:27,830
the answers I get off of that and but

1880
01:25:32,770 --> 01:25:30,650
until that happens until UFOs gets it

1881
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:32,780
into its own little room there will not

1882
01:25:35,620 --> 01:25:34,370
be a scientific approach from scientists

1883
01:25:37,900 --> 01:25:35,630
because the scientists don't want to

1884
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:37,910
have oh you're looking at paranormal

1885
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:39,770
events okay we oh that sounds pretty

1886
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:41,360
good with you and guess what you just

1887
01:25:49,090 --> 01:25:45,850
lost your government money for the year

1888
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:49,100
right okay so yeah there's no wind

1889
01:25:54,130 --> 01:25:51,890
there's no wind in it for them now

1890
01:25:56,140 --> 01:25:54,140
there's no upside and as you mentioned

1891
01:25:58,560 --> 01:25:56,150
before I move on doesn't have six or

1892
01:26:02,020 --> 01:25:58,570
seven million members you know that

1893
01:26:04,930 --> 01:26:02,030
there's a relatively small number of

1894
01:26:07,480 --> 01:26:04,940
folks who are way into this yeah a show

1895
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:07,490
like unidentified or ancient aliens

1896
01:26:11,290 --> 01:26:09,290
might draw a very nice audience at a

1897
01:26:14,260 --> 01:26:11,300
profitable audience for something like

1898
01:26:17,170 --> 01:26:14,270
the History Channel but you know even

1899
01:26:19,180 --> 01:26:17,180
most of those people are not wildly into

1900
01:26:20,740 --> 01:26:19,190
UFOs they're a day it's something to

1901
01:26:22,180 --> 01:26:20,750
watch on a Friday night they like it

1902
01:26:24,610 --> 01:26:22,190
they're interested they think there's

1903
01:26:26,620 --> 01:26:24,620
something to it but then the folks who

1904
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:26,630
take the extra step and want to get more

1905
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:29,330
actively involved it's a very small

1906
01:26:36,100 --> 01:26:31,370
number of people and you know it's it's

1907
01:26:38,470 --> 01:26:36,110
spread you know I played it wide but now

1908
01:26:40,180 --> 01:26:38,480
wait less than an inch deep to play on

1909
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:40,190
that old expression a mile wide and an

1910
01:26:46,350 --> 01:26:42,530
inch deep you know there's only so many

1911
01:26:48,970 --> 01:26:46,360
and it's just not enough to get

1912
01:26:49,689 --> 01:26:48,980
attention from the scientific community

1913
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:49,699
from

1914
01:26:56,549 --> 01:26:54,289
military it doesn't happen that often I

1915
01:26:59,560 --> 01:26:56,559
mean really good cases where you do have

1916
01:27:02,259 --> 01:26:59,570
backup for you know evidence where

1917
01:27:04,419 --> 01:27:02,269
you've got a good credible witness may

1918
01:27:06,729 --> 01:27:04,429
be backed up by radar as an example

1919
01:27:10,239 --> 01:27:06,739
those kind of things just don't seem to

1920
01:27:11,709 --> 01:27:10,249
happen often enough to get people all

1921
01:27:15,850 --> 01:27:11,719
worked up about it and that I think

1922
01:27:17,770 --> 01:27:15,860
that's where the real issue is okay

1923
01:27:21,129 --> 01:27:17,780
Steve I had a question to ask you and

1924
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:21,139
that is it's one of the biggies will

1925
01:27:29,549 --> 01:27:24,639
disclosure happen and if so when and how

1926
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:29,559
assuming that it hasn't already if so

1927
01:27:35,919 --> 01:27:32,690
will disclosure happen if so when and

1928
01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:35,929
how I call it baby steps is what I call

1929
01:27:43,390 --> 01:27:39,260
it it things happen a little bit at a

1930
01:27:44,919 --> 01:27:43,400
time and I'm you might correct me if I'm

1931
01:27:47,020 --> 01:27:44,929
wrong but I don't think they have found

1932
01:27:48,729 --> 01:27:47,030
any water on another planet yet I may be

1933
01:27:51,339 --> 01:27:48,739
wrong seemed like they said they found

1934
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:51,349
some on Mars but when you sit there and

1935
01:27:54,339 --> 01:27:52,880
jump up and down for years and years and

1936
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:54,349
years say well you can't have life with

1937
01:28:00,279 --> 01:27:57,170
that without water and both of them one

1938
01:28:01,509 --> 01:28:00,289
has water so that kind of limits it down

1939
01:28:05,410 --> 01:28:01,519
a little bit but when you start finding

1940
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:05,420
other planets with water then that's

1941
01:28:10,149 --> 01:28:08,570
that's one little baby step and I would

1942
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:10,159
I would think that you know you see

1943
01:28:13,149 --> 01:28:11,570
these photographs oh we found a new

1944
01:28:14,259 --> 01:28:13,159
planet out here it looks like Earth and

1945
01:28:16,750 --> 01:28:14,269
all that kind of thing well I'm looking

1946
01:28:18,819 --> 01:28:16,760
at it and I don't see any electricity

1947
01:28:20,739 --> 01:28:18,829
own anywheres no lights in the cities or

1948
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:20,749
anything so does that mean there's life

1949
01:28:25,359 --> 01:28:22,400
or no I mean they use maybe they use

1950
01:28:27,729 --> 01:28:25,369
candles so I I do I do want to expound

1951
01:28:28,839 --> 01:28:27,739
on this and that is uh I and I brought

1952
01:28:30,699 --> 01:28:28,849
this up myself I don't have a

1953
01:28:31,989 --> 01:28:30,709
photographic memory so I just want to be

1954
01:28:34,979 --> 01:28:31,999
clear I did look this up while you were

1955
01:28:37,180 --> 01:28:34,989
talking on September 27 2012 NASA

1956
01:28:38,979 --> 01:28:37,190
scientists announced that the Curiosity

1957
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:38,989
rover found direct evidence for an

1958
01:28:42,759 --> 01:28:40,880
ancient stream vented in Gale Crater

1959
01:28:45,489 --> 01:28:42,769
suggesting an ancient Vickers flow of

1960
01:28:47,229 --> 01:28:45,499
water on Mars I I could go on about that

1961
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:47,239
regarding water on Mars

1962
01:28:54,419 --> 01:28:50,719
but wanted to move on to the idea of

1963
01:28:57,910 --> 01:28:54,429
disclosure and that is on December 16

1964
01:28:59,259 --> 01:28:57,920
2017 there was an article title glowing

1965
01:29:01,479 --> 01:28:59,269
ours and black money the Pentagon's

1966
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:01,489
mysterious UFO program written by three

1967
01:29:06,530 --> 01:29:03,510
people Helen Cooper Ralph bloomin

1968
01:29:08,750 --> 01:29:06,540
and Leslie Kean now Jan harson has

1969
01:29:12,890 --> 01:29:08,760
already made it clear he believes dot

1970
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:12,900
article was a form of disclosure and he

1971
01:29:18,020 --> 01:29:14,490
said we already have all the disclosure

1972
01:29:19,940 --> 01:29:18,030
we're gonna need that that is what he

1973
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:19,950
believes this full disclosure by the US

1974
01:29:24,740 --> 01:29:22,410
government so as other people have that

1975
01:29:25,850 --> 01:29:24,750
same perspective I don't I'll tell you

1976
01:29:27,950 --> 01:29:25,860
why and then I want to know what you

1977
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:27,960
have to say and that is to me full

1978
01:29:33,650 --> 01:29:30,930
disclosure from the US government for

1979
01:29:37,220 --> 01:29:33,660
example is releasing every file they've

1980
01:29:42,440 --> 01:29:37,230
ever had related to the UFO topic and I

1981
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:42,450
personally believe that if they being

1982
01:29:48,290 --> 01:29:44,930
the US government can handle reading

1983
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:48,300
scrutinizing reviewing and analyzing and

1984
01:29:53,780 --> 01:29:51,210
and also gathering all of that

1985
01:29:56,750 --> 01:29:53,790
information on the UFO topic

1986
01:29:58,430 --> 01:29:56,760
well we're adults so can we we're not a

1987
01:30:01,100 --> 01:29:58,440
bunch of five-year-olds we're not babies

1988
01:30:02,990 --> 01:30:01,110
pretty sure we can handle it if they can

1989
01:30:03,740 --> 01:30:03,000
- now if it's an issue of national

1990
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:03,750
security

1991
01:30:11,150 --> 01:30:07,440
I get that however how do we really know

1992
01:30:14,990 --> 01:30:11,160
that any of it would have anything to do

1993
01:30:17,300 --> 01:30:15,000
with national security well national

1994
01:30:19,310 --> 01:30:17,310
security is a big umbrella it is a big

1995
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:19,320
umbrella and I think it's some cases

1996
01:30:23,170 --> 01:30:20,850
they could be using that as an excuse

1997
01:30:26,090 --> 01:30:23,180
but do you boo

1998
01:30:27,500 --> 01:30:26,100
find out that all aliens are real and

1999
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:27,510
all this kind of crap and your religion

2000
01:30:31,370 --> 01:30:29,370
isn't what you think it is well they're

2001
01:30:33,380 --> 01:30:31,380
going to riot in the street there's your

2002
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:33,390
national security umbrella being broken

2003
01:30:39,530 --> 01:30:36,900
right there but I okay and see this the

2004
01:30:42,260 --> 01:30:39,540
thing we've heard that for four years

2005
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:42,270
now sure but but do you really believe

2006
01:30:47,780 --> 01:30:45,210
that well there was a study I read about

2007
01:30:48,860 --> 01:30:47,790
years and years ago that was was made

2008
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:48,870
similar to what you're talking about

2009
01:30:54,530 --> 01:30:51,770
what if people knew that the UFOs really

2010
01:30:56,900 --> 01:30:54,540
aliens all this telling and they have

2011
01:30:58,370 --> 01:30:56,910
summated that 17 or 20 percent of the

2012
01:31:00,650 --> 01:30:58,380
religious people would commit suicide

2013
01:31:02,060 --> 01:31:00,660
but cause I guess what we're not gonna

2014
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:02,070
live in the afterlife now that kind of

2015
01:31:08,630 --> 01:31:05,940
thing and then a lot of a larger group

2016
01:31:10,700 --> 01:31:08,640
would start revolting and getting mad

2017
01:31:12,950 --> 01:31:10,710
because the they've been lied to for

2018
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:12,960
years and then kick everybody out of

2019
01:31:16,690 --> 01:31:14,730
office and just all kinds of things

2020
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:16,700
would take place and

2021
01:31:22,810 --> 01:31:19,250
and I can almost see all of that I mean

2022
01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:22,820
a lot of people put a lot of faith in

2023
01:31:30,450 --> 01:31:26,450
the word God I mean in the Bible so

2024
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:33,720
the debt that a person believes

2025
01:31:40,300 --> 01:31:36,770
Christians for example cannot handle the

2026
01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:40,310
possibility of ETS being out there my

2027
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:42,590
house they think their demons are told

2028
01:31:47,980 --> 01:31:46,010
they're demons oh okay I was just gonna

2029
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:47,990
say let's just say okay I'm glad you

2030
01:31:54,130 --> 01:31:50,410
brought the demon topic let's just say

2031
01:31:57,610 --> 01:31:54,140
they're not demon it's okay then my

2032
01:32:00,450 --> 01:31:57,620
answer to that Christian pasta the idea

2033
01:32:05,020 --> 01:32:00,460
of regarding Christians and he teases

2034
01:32:07,950 --> 01:32:05,030
well if they have full belief in faith

2035
01:32:09,730 --> 01:32:07,960
in God then what are they worried about

2036
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:09,740
well that's true what are they worried

2037
01:32:13,630 --> 01:32:12,130
about whether they're demons or not

2038
01:32:15,910 --> 01:32:13,640
that's true

2039
01:32:17,830 --> 01:32:15,920
God can take care of them and over the

2040
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:17,840
last two years we've seen all this new

2041
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:20,090
information come out about UFOs and

2042
01:32:24,370 --> 01:32:22,850
what's the reaction been it's gotten a

2043
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:24,380
few people more interested in the

2044
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:27,290
subject but again it's a real small

2045
01:32:31,480 --> 01:32:29,450
number against the entire population

2046
01:32:33,100 --> 01:32:31,490
yeah and you know when these articles

2047
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:33,110
come out they come out on like a Friday

2048
01:32:37,690 --> 01:32:35,690
and people are gonna do something on the

2049
01:32:39,730 --> 01:32:37,700
weekend and nobody ever really notices

2050
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:39,740
all this stuff anyway coming out you

2051
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:41,810
know as mainstream media UFO related

2052
01:32:50,380 --> 01:32:44,210
reports oh you know the really biggy

2053
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:50,390
articles I've noticed their articles in

2054
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:53,570
the New York Times Politico

2055
01:32:58,870 --> 01:32:55,370
I haven't read a newspaper since I threw

2056
01:33:00,370 --> 01:32:58,880
that stupid thing back in the 70s well

2057
01:33:02,500 --> 01:33:00,380
okay so I was gonna ask you another

2058
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:02,510
question but just just one more thing on

2059
01:33:06,490 --> 01:33:04,250
Mars in case our listeners want to know

2060
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:06,500
a little bit more about that that almost

2061
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:09,920
all water on Mars exists today is ice so

2062
01:33:18,460 --> 01:33:14,770
moving along here do you do you believe

2063
01:33:20,980 --> 01:33:18,470
we are or have been using any technology

2064
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:20,990
taken by our government or any

2065
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:23,330
government from extraterrestrial related

2066
01:33:27,010 --> 01:33:25,520
technology well of course I do

2067
01:33:29,820 --> 01:33:27,020
it goes back to what I was telling you

2068
01:33:32,130 --> 01:33:29,830
earlier we were in a

2069
01:33:34,170 --> 01:33:32,140
animal-drawn vehicle for 2500 years and

2070
01:33:36,530 --> 01:33:34,180
all of a sudden in 60 years we go to the

2071
01:33:39,900 --> 01:33:36,540
moon we didn't just learn that overnight

2072
01:33:41,430 --> 01:33:39,910
we had some help doing that now that

2073
01:33:44,490 --> 01:33:41,440
doesn't that means that there are some

2074
01:33:46,050 --> 01:33:44,500
aliens that are here to help us and if

2075
01:33:49,970 --> 01:33:46,060
there were any aliens here that we're

2076
01:33:58,260 --> 01:33:54,030
right so we're getting help all right

2077
01:34:00,300 --> 01:33:58,270
okay so uh do you believe this is a

2078
01:34:02,700 --> 01:34:00,310
question you sort of answered but tell

2079
01:34:04,380 --> 01:34:02,710
me if you feel like you have in its

2080
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:04,390
entirety as far as answering it

2081
01:34:08,010 --> 01:34:06,490
do you believe national security is a

2082
01:34:09,990 --> 01:34:08,020
legitimate concern to keep all

2083
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:10,000
government agencies from disclosing

2084
01:34:13,980 --> 01:34:12,370
everything they have about possible

2085
01:34:16,140 --> 01:34:13,990
presence of extraterrestrial activity

2086
01:34:20,910 --> 01:34:16,150
and extraterrestrial crafts and

2087
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:20,920
technology yes okay and what are your

2088
01:34:25,260 --> 01:34:22,930
thoughts on the advanced aerospace

2089
01:34:27,210 --> 01:34:25,270
threat identification program AAT IP

2090
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:27,220
videos from the Pentagon UFO study I

2091
01:34:30,330 --> 01:34:28,810
think there's Frank tell me if I'm

2092
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:30,340
correct but I believe it's a Google

2093
01:34:35,850 --> 01:34:34,330
they're so fast and tic-tac well I've

2094
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:35,860
been hearing a lot about stik-tek lately

2095
01:34:41,610 --> 01:34:39,250
but anything in the news big-time like

2096
01:34:43,860 --> 01:34:41,620
that I think is just a test I think it's

2097
01:34:46,290 --> 01:34:43,870
our equipment they're testing it to see

2098
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:46,300
what the results are going to be from

2099
01:34:51,300 --> 01:34:49,570
the people at large so so let me give

2100
01:34:53,010 --> 01:34:51,310
you example it's like another one maybe

2101
01:34:56,130 --> 01:34:53,020
steps I was telling you about right so

2102
01:34:58,890 --> 01:34:56,140
we interviewed a few folks Ignis for

2103
01:35:02,460 --> 01:34:58,900
different people I think it was a PJ

2104
01:35:04,980 --> 01:35:02,470
Hughes Gary Voorhees Kevin day and what

2105
01:35:08,220 --> 01:35:04,990
was the other person's name I believe a

2106
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:08,230
person - yeah of a USS Princeton and the

2107
01:35:14,310 --> 01:35:12,370
USS Nimitz and yep I asked the question

2108
01:35:17,370 --> 01:35:14,320
basically do you do believe it's

2109
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:17,380
possible that this being the tic-tock

2110
01:35:21,780 --> 01:35:19,570
this thing being the tic-tock they saw

2111
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:21,790
was one of ours meaning US governments

2112
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:25,330
and one of them said yes now I talked to

2113
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:27,250
a scientist I'm not going to say who

2114
01:35:32,370 --> 01:35:30,010
this person is okay and they said they

2115
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:32,380
believe from their perspective that it

2116
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:35,650
is not it doesn't make sense that DARPA

2117
01:35:43,589 --> 01:35:39,010
or any other department of the US

2118
01:35:48,490 --> 01:35:43,599
government would test out equipment

2119
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:48,500
while the military it without the

2120
01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:52,489
military knowing because it's possible

2121
01:35:58,030 --> 01:35:54,409
that they may react in a mortal manner

2122
01:36:01,359 --> 01:35:58,040
like actually shoot at the craft there

2123
01:36:04,810 --> 01:36:01,369
for killing the folks inside or ruining

2124
01:36:07,089 --> 01:36:04,820
the multimillion-dollar drone you know

2125
01:36:08,530 --> 01:36:07,099
do you really so my question to you

2126
01:36:10,959 --> 01:36:08,540
again is do you really believe it's

2127
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:10,969
still one of ours based on that idea yes

2128
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:13,610
Wow any kind of a threat

2129
01:36:20,020 --> 01:36:18,770
an unknown an unknown is a threat and if

2130
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:20,030
it's in the close proximity to an

2131
01:36:27,220 --> 01:36:22,489
aircraft carrier that's a major threat

2132
01:36:30,729 --> 01:36:27,230
but did not launch any aircraft to

2133
01:36:31,270 --> 01:36:30,739
challenge this object we'd say that

2134
01:36:34,419 --> 01:36:31,280
again

2135
01:36:37,359 --> 01:36:34,429
the aircraft carrier did not launch any

2136
01:36:39,459 --> 01:36:37,369
aircraft to challenge the object well

2137
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:39,469
Dave actually it did that they sent out

2138
01:36:44,430 --> 01:36:41,570
that three different sorties to go take

2139
01:36:48,549 --> 01:36:44,440
a closer look okay and what they found

2140
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:48,559
they saw the object up closer I won't

2141
01:36:53,950 --> 01:36:50,960
see two of them I believe saw the object

2142
01:37:01,450 --> 01:36:53,960
up close and then a third was able to

2143
01:37:06,220 --> 01:37:01,460
get that FLIR video okay it's a stolen

2144
01:37:11,049 --> 01:37:06,230
unknown so then the one had the one

2145
01:37:14,770 --> 01:37:11,059
pilot flavor he is convinced that it the

2146
01:37:16,569 --> 01:37:14,780
vehicle was not of this world somewhere

2147
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:16,579
somewhere along the line someone told

2148
01:37:24,220 --> 01:37:22,250
them not to act with it act with it

2149
01:37:26,830 --> 01:37:24,230
meaning what lock on to and shoot it

2150
01:37:28,629 --> 01:37:26,840
down well they didn't have weapons

2151
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:28,639
onboard that part of their training was

2152
01:37:34,419 --> 01:37:30,770
not to be armed well there's the other

2153
01:37:37,060 --> 01:37:34,429
rub you do not send up aircraft to

2154
01:37:41,620 --> 01:37:37,070
challenge another unknown without

2155
01:37:43,660 --> 01:37:41,630
armament I think that was actually a

2156
01:37:45,339 --> 01:37:43,670
topic of debate in the Ithaca Miramar

2157
01:37:47,859 --> 01:37:45,349
regarding what we're talking about here

2158
01:37:50,350 --> 01:37:47,869
well then yeah that know them we've got

2159
01:37:53,379 --> 01:37:50,360
the you're saying challenge I'm saying

2160
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:53,389
you know the with the reports that we've

2161
01:37:56,500 --> 01:37:55,250
gotten are that they did go out to take

2162
01:37:58,720 --> 01:37:56,510
a closer look so

2163
01:38:01,930 --> 01:37:58,730
you're saying challenge meaning go out

2164
01:38:03,729 --> 01:38:01,940
and yeah I get closer down what it is

2165
01:38:06,010 --> 01:38:03,739
make contact with it and see what its

2166
01:38:08,430 --> 01:38:06,020
intentions yeah well yeah that there

2167
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:08,440
that they did do that they did do I

2168
01:38:13,900 --> 01:38:11,360
think exact I think are the evidence

2169
01:38:15,790 --> 01:38:13,910
points since their weaponry yes they

2170
01:38:17,590 --> 01:38:15,800
were unarmed you don't you do not send

2171
01:38:20,260 --> 01:38:17,600
up someone unarmed to challenge an

2172
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:20,270
object that's unknown okay I'll give you

2173
01:38:24,430 --> 01:38:21,050
an example

2174
01:38:28,030 --> 01:38:24,440
yeah Washington DC is a no-fly zone yeah

2175
01:38:30,010 --> 01:38:28,040
try to fly an airplane in there you will

2176
01:38:31,900 --> 01:38:30,020
be challenging immediately but I get

2177
01:38:34,570 --> 01:38:31,910
fighters with there's enough armament on

2178
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:34,580
there to blow you apart and and our

2179
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:36,170
listeners just our listeners know Steve

2180
01:38:40,930 --> 01:38:38,810
is just giving that as an example he's

2181
01:38:45,729 --> 01:38:40,940
not giving a command to our listeners to

2182
01:38:47,979 --> 01:38:45,739
try ya know why you don't want to do it

2183
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:47,989
exactly and I just wanna make that clear

2184
01:38:52,030 --> 01:38:50,210
because Steve was just using that as a

2185
01:38:53,860 --> 01:38:52,040
mere example and he of course we all

2186
01:38:56,500 --> 01:38:53,870
know this doesn't I mean the airspace

2187
01:38:58,930 --> 01:38:56,510
over DC is different than airspace out

2188
01:39:01,330 --> 01:38:58,940
over the Pacific Ocean but any any

2189
01:39:05,229 --> 01:39:01,340
airspace around an aircraft carrier is a

2190
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:05,239
secure area right so Mike my question

2191
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:07,489
remains the same and I don't mind if you

2192
01:39:10,570 --> 01:39:09,050
say why already answered that that's

2193
01:39:14,460 --> 01:39:10,580
fine yeah so I'm going to push you on

2194
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:14,470
this Steve okay I'm gonna be aggressive

2195
01:39:22,420 --> 01:39:20,090
my question is why would any department

2196
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:22,430
of the US government test out the

2197
01:39:30,180 --> 01:39:26,170
behavior or possible reactions unknown

2198
01:39:32,710 --> 01:39:30,190
reactants of our own military on craft

2199
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:32,720
just to see what they would do like what

2200
01:39:40,470 --> 01:39:35,330
is the point of that well I can put it

2201
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:40,480
to you in four letters T est

2202
01:39:44,410 --> 01:39:43,010
so you really think that they that they

2203
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:44,420
being the US government would do that to

2204
01:39:50,410 --> 01:39:46,250
their own military to see the behavior

2205
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:50,420
of course okay all right well so let me

2206
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:53,290
move along the next question what do you

2207
01:40:00,729 --> 01:39:57,170
when you first started out researching

2208
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:00,739
the UFO topic and and I'm not saying

2209
01:40:03,910 --> 01:40:02,210
this happened to you but it this has

2210
01:40:06,130 --> 01:40:03,920
happened an awful lot of people tell me

2211
01:40:08,470 --> 01:40:06,140
if this happened to you you started off

2212
01:40:10,270 --> 01:40:08,480
with questions hoping that you might

2213
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:10,280
find some answers

2214
01:40:14,890 --> 01:40:12,080
maybe knowing realistically you wouldn't

2215
01:40:19,570 --> 01:40:14,900
have all answers a questions answered

2216
01:40:21,610 --> 01:40:19,580
but at least some of them do you now all

2217
01:40:24,100 --> 01:40:21,620
these years later after being involved

2218
01:40:29,440 --> 01:40:24,110
in the UFO topic have more questions

2219
01:40:32,470 --> 01:40:29,450
than you do answers let's see how to

2220
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:36,340
I suppose my some questions were

2221
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:40,370
answered yes but the real important ones

2222
01:40:48,370 --> 01:40:44,570
were not let's take a abduction

2223
01:40:51,130 --> 01:40:48,380
experience for example they they are all

2224
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:51,140
basically the same and there's no

2225
01:40:55,390 --> 01:40:53,690
evidence of anything there may be some

2226
01:40:57,130 --> 01:40:55,400
scratches or something on the body or

2227
01:40:58,980 --> 01:40:57,140
something like that but you know I can

2228
01:41:01,810 --> 01:40:58,990
scratch myself and say an alien did it

2229
01:41:04,780 --> 01:41:01,820
they they always talk about these

2230
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:04,790
implants which always something is like

2231
01:41:11,370 --> 01:41:07,330
a splinter that's been there for years

2232
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:11,380
no really good evidence on that and I

2233
01:41:18,010 --> 01:41:15,770
began to look at my investigations at a

2234
01:41:19,660 --> 01:41:18,020
different way when I was going into an

2235
01:41:21,310 --> 01:41:19,670
investigation I would just kind of look

2236
01:41:24,610 --> 01:41:21,320
around first thing I'm looking for our

2237
01:41:26,650 --> 01:41:24,620
UFO book I want to see how much you how

2238
01:41:28,660 --> 01:41:26,660
many UFO books that they have or read or

2239
01:41:32,530 --> 01:41:28,670
look into or what channel they looked at

2240
01:41:34,930 --> 01:41:32,540
because any abductee can read to

2241
01:41:36,730 --> 01:41:34,940
abduction books and be a champ on on

2242
01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:36,740
what goes on and can say anything they

2243
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:39,520
can repeat anything in that book and

2244
01:41:44,380 --> 01:41:42,170
that's that's what happens that took

2245
01:41:48,340 --> 01:41:44,390
place this is it so I thought I did it

2246
01:41:52,090 --> 01:41:48,350
too I don't know what their ambitions

2247
01:41:56,380 --> 01:41:52,100
are or why they're doing it maybe maybe

2248
01:42:01,510 --> 01:41:56,390
it did happen and all of the incidents

2249
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:01,520
are the same but I don't know it's just

2250
01:42:05,530 --> 01:42:03,440
I'd really don't have any more questions

2251
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:05,540
than I had to begin with it's just as

2252
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:06,530
some of the questions are being

2253
01:42:12,670 --> 01:42:09,890
explained a little bit different do you

2254
01:42:14,020 --> 01:42:12,680
think that it's possible all of your

2255
01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:14,030
questions may be answered

2256
01:42:19,660 --> 01:42:17,450
eventually in your lifetime no okay and

2257
01:42:22,150 --> 01:42:19,670
so my last question to you is and it's a

2258
01:42:24,990 --> 01:42:22,160
super broad one is is there anything

2259
01:42:27,939 --> 01:42:25,000
you're a super broad chance

2260
01:42:30,459 --> 01:42:27,949
you are too Frank thank you oh thank you

2261
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:30,469
because she called me a super broad for

2262
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:36,250
the record I'll be a super board okay so

2263
01:42:41,680 --> 01:42:39,770
my super broad question here Steve is

2264
01:42:44,709 --> 01:42:41,690
anything else you'd like to cover

2265
01:42:47,050 --> 01:42:44,719
regarding the topic of ufology or MUFON

2266
01:42:50,500 --> 01:42:47,060
for our listeners as a parting parting

2267
01:42:52,149 --> 01:42:50,510
thought or thoughts I think that anyone

2268
01:42:54,910 --> 01:42:52,159
that's interested in the UFO topic

2269
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:54,920
should join MUFON immediately and it's

2270
01:42:58,300 --> 01:42:56,690
not just so MUFON can make a lot of

2271
01:43:01,120 --> 01:42:58,310
money and all that kind of thing it's

2272
01:43:04,450 --> 01:43:01,130
it's like I said earlier we need a

2273
01:43:06,910 --> 01:43:04,460
voting bloc and until we have several

2274
01:43:08,130 --> 01:43:06,920
million members and MUFON we're going

2275
01:43:11,740 --> 01:43:08,140
nowhere fast

2276
01:43:14,050 --> 01:43:11,750
yes that's just simple fact and let's be

2277
01:43:16,450 --> 01:43:14,060
clear because there's a lot of myths

2278
01:43:19,390 --> 01:43:16,460
about MUFON out there that need to be

2279
01:43:21,580 --> 01:43:19,400
cleared up by folks who are involved

2280
01:43:25,689 --> 01:43:21,590
with MUFON and and Steve is a perfect

2281
01:43:28,990 --> 01:43:25,699
person to to address these myths one is

2282
01:43:30,700 --> 01:43:29,000
MUFON is a part of the government the US

2283
01:43:32,950 --> 01:43:30,710
government please address that because

2284
01:43:34,390 --> 01:43:32,960
that's not true any time I hear

2285
01:43:36,010 --> 01:43:34,400
something like that I'll jump up and

2286
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:36,020
down and say yeah I'm gonna get a big

2287
01:43:41,380 --> 01:43:39,530
check this month right no we are not

2288
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:41,390
part of the government and anybody says

2289
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:43,610
that has no idea what they're talking

2290
01:43:46,149 --> 01:43:44,480
about

2291
01:43:48,430 --> 01:43:46,159
thank you also there's very very few

2292
01:43:51,010 --> 01:43:48,440
people actually paid in the MUFON

2293
01:43:53,260 --> 01:43:51,020
organization maybe one to two percent of

2294
01:43:55,510 --> 01:43:53,270
the MUFON organization has paid paying

2295
01:43:57,760 --> 01:43:55,520
positions the other thing is if folks

2296
01:43:59,800 --> 01:43:57,770
want to join MUFON Steve already

2297
01:44:01,570 --> 01:43:59,810
addressed this earlier but what you do

2298
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:01,580
is you go to MUFON comm and when you're

2299
01:44:07,660 --> 01:44:04,690
on that site you then what Steve can you

2300
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:07,670
yes they they've made changes to the

2301
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:10,010
website that the the join button used to

2302
01:44:13,419 --> 01:44:11,690
be at the top in the right hand corner

2303
01:44:15,700 --> 01:44:13,429
it may not be there anymore there

2304
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:15,710
there's a small bar that goes across the

2305
01:44:22,630 --> 01:44:19,850
page at the top or half and there's a

2306
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:22,640
button there says join and while you're

2307
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:24,050
doing that you can join MUFON and you

2308
01:44:29,410 --> 01:44:25,520
can also be a field investigator and

2309
01:44:31,540 --> 01:44:29,420
that's quite a quite a maneuver to join

2310
01:44:36,100 --> 01:44:31,550
and be a field investigator I'm not

2311
01:44:37,540 --> 01:44:36,110
saying it's hard but you can join by the

2312
01:44:42,670 --> 01:44:37,550
manual the manual

2313
01:44:43,870 --> 01:44:42,680
very I don't know it's pretty thick

2314
01:44:47,260 --> 01:44:43,880
manual and it has a lot of good

2315
01:44:48,700 --> 01:44:47,270
information in it and the test is no

2316
01:44:52,420 --> 01:44:48,710
longer in the manual to test is online

2317
01:44:55,420 --> 01:44:52,430
and we have a unique way of doing that

2318
01:44:57,550 --> 01:44:55,430
test used used to in the past all the

2319
01:44:58,780 --> 01:44:57,560
test answers were big time secret only

2320
01:45:04,630 --> 01:44:58,790
about three or four people knew the

2321
01:45:07,630 --> 01:45:04,640
answers to this test myself and Kent st.

2322
01:45:10,540 --> 01:45:07,640
John developed a system when you put it

2323
01:45:12,660 --> 01:45:10,550
on the CMS we now have three hundred

2324
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:12,670
different questions that the test

2325
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:14,840
generates a one hundred question test

2326
01:45:20,650 --> 01:45:18,410
from and basically no one gets the same

2327
01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:20,660
test so we don't have to worry about who

2328
01:45:25,180 --> 01:45:22,490
gets the answers to what when and where

2329
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:25,190
because they're all basically scrambled

2330
01:45:29,110 --> 01:45:27,170
now but all of the answers all the

2331
01:45:30,340 --> 01:45:29,120
questions everything are all in the film

2332
01:45:32,470 --> 01:45:30,350
investigators manual everything comes

2333
01:45:34,900 --> 01:45:32,480
out of there right and then the other

2334
01:45:37,240 --> 01:45:34,910
myth is that MUFON makes money there are

2335
01:45:39,460 --> 01:45:37,250
nonprofit organizations so that is

2336
01:45:42,850 --> 01:45:39,470
correct right Steve that's true we're

2337
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:42,860
nonprofit organization and I'd like to

2338
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:44,510
say a few people are paid I know I'm not

2339
01:45:50,050 --> 01:45:46,880
and I've been in this thing since 1991

2340
01:45:52,030 --> 01:45:50,060
and and I don't care who makes the money

2341
01:45:54,940 --> 01:45:52,040
and move on I'm having fun doing this I

2342
01:45:56,980 --> 01:45:54,950
want I want folks to know also there are

2343
01:45:59,050 --> 01:45:56,990
people from all over the world involved

2344
01:46:03,040 --> 01:45:59,060
in MUFON MUFON is in many different

2345
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:03,050
countries and different in every single

2346
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:05,050
state in the United States correct Steve

2347
01:46:11,110 --> 01:46:09,290
yes there's a lot of sighting reports

2348
01:46:13,450 --> 01:46:11,120
okay but the countries that have the

2349
01:46:17,110 --> 01:46:13,460
largest group of sightings are United

2350
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:17,120
Kingdom Canada Australia and the United

2351
01:46:21,910 --> 01:46:19,730
States everybody else is just scattered

2352
01:46:24,190 --> 01:46:21,920
here and there two or three right now

2353
01:46:27,490 --> 01:46:24,200
I'm in control of about 150 different

2354
01:46:30,310 --> 01:46:27,500
countries and we get I don't know Edwin

2355
01:46:32,530 --> 01:46:30,320
one week maybe five five cases out of

2356
01:46:35,200 --> 01:46:32,540
all of that group so it's very foreign

2357
01:46:37,900 --> 01:46:35,210
in between so there's only one question

2358
01:46:40,780 --> 01:46:37,910
left and we're going to go ahead and in

2359
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:40,790
this interview and that is Frank and I

2360
01:46:47,020 --> 01:46:42,530
had wanted to ask you briefly about the

2361
01:46:48,760 --> 01:46:47,030
CMS database and the film 30 now just

2362
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:48,770
really important for our listeners to

2363
01:46:51,310 --> 01:46:50,930
know there's a point where Steve may not

2364
01:46:53,950 --> 01:46:51,320
be able

2365
01:46:56,970 --> 01:46:53,960
answer all the questions on the CMS

2366
01:46:59,680 --> 01:46:56,980
database or form 30 possibly because

2367
01:47:01,290 --> 01:46:59,690
there there could be confidential

2368
01:47:05,459 --> 01:47:01,300
information regarding that that's that

2369
01:47:09,160 --> 01:47:05,469
is specific to MUFON so what is CMS

2370
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:09,170
database and what is form 30 well at the

2371
01:47:13,359 --> 01:47:10,130
beginning where there's two different

2372
01:47:15,970 --> 01:47:13,369
entities the CMS database is the case

2373
01:47:18,550 --> 01:47:15,980
management system and when a case comes

2374
01:47:22,780 --> 01:47:18,560
in it automatically is entered into the

2375
01:47:27,010 --> 01:47:22,790
CMS database and depending on what state

2376
01:47:29,919 --> 01:47:27,020
that the case is generated in that case

2377
01:47:32,200 --> 01:47:29,929
then goes to that state director they're

2378
01:47:33,700 --> 01:47:32,210
notified by email hey you got a case

2379
01:47:35,200 --> 01:47:33,710
here's the case number da da da da Li

2380
01:47:37,629 --> 01:47:35,210
gives you a general information of what

2381
01:47:39,310 --> 01:47:37,639
the case is about and the state director

2382
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:39,320
or the chief investigator then take that

2383
01:47:44,050 --> 01:47:42,320
case and they assign it to basically the

2384
01:47:49,290 --> 01:47:44,060
nearest to film investigator to the

2385
01:47:51,550 --> 01:47:49,300
witness and the the investigator

2386
01:47:54,129 --> 01:47:51,560
interview mister people does the case

2387
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:54,139
fills out the case information and part

2388
01:47:58,479 --> 01:47:56,570
of that is form 30 and the reason form

2389
01:48:01,200 --> 01:47:58,489
30 was generated just because way back a

2390
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:01,210
long time ago it was a free-for-all and

2391
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:04,400
you could take one case synopsis from

2392
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:06,290
one case and you look at the other one

2393
01:48:11,470 --> 01:48:07,730
you say what what's this what's that

2394
01:48:13,030 --> 01:48:11,480
with it's just a big scrambled egg so as

2395
01:48:13,990 --> 01:48:13,040
the DOI I got with all the state

2396
01:48:15,819 --> 01:48:14,000
directors and all the field

2397
01:48:18,669 --> 01:48:15,829
investigators not saying email I said

2398
01:48:21,970 --> 01:48:18,679
show me the criteria you use for your

2399
01:48:28,260 --> 01:48:21,980
final case and I got about six now that

2400
01:48:31,899 --> 01:48:28,270
six out of 50 states 50 got six so six

2401
01:48:34,180 --> 01:48:31,909
responses me six responses yes so we

2402
01:48:36,459 --> 01:48:34,190
that the best one was the one in Texas

2403
01:48:39,819 --> 01:48:36,469
and the Texas is the one we used and

2404
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:39,829
that's formed 30 and it's very involved

2405
01:48:46,510 --> 01:48:43,489
as it asked for a lot of information and

2406
01:48:47,979 --> 01:48:46,520
immediately people did not like it

2407
01:48:51,669 --> 01:48:47,989
because it was well we're filling it out

2408
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:51,679
twice you know that kind of thing so it

2409
01:48:57,939 --> 01:48:54,320
took years and years to do and I'm not

2410
01:49:00,430 --> 01:48:57,949
sure how much it is now but it was

2411
01:49:02,890 --> 01:49:00,440
supposed to be automatically done for

2412
01:49:05,229 --> 01:49:02,900
the most part and so now when you fill

2413
01:49:07,209 --> 01:49:05,239
out form one on your signing report

2414
01:49:08,950 --> 01:49:07,219
it is supposed to automatically transfer

2415
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,960
quite a bit of information over to form

2416
01:49:13,060 --> 01:49:10,400
30 so you can have to do this double

2417
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:13,070
work thing I've never tested it I don't

2418
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:14,650
know I just hear that it's done and

2419
01:49:18,970 --> 01:49:16,880
there's only certain people who have

2420
01:49:21,010 --> 01:49:18,980
access to those databases is that

2421
01:49:26,650 --> 01:49:21,020
correct field investigators have access

2422
01:49:29,440 --> 01:49:26,660
to the database 30 yes and CMS database

2423
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:29,450
of members of MUFON like people who pay

2424
01:49:36,270 --> 01:49:32,810
for newsletter do they have access their

2425
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:36,280
pond members meaning Daniel P annually

2426
01:49:40,750 --> 01:49:39,410
okay so even state to state a field

2427
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:40,760
investigator cannot look at in other

2428
01:49:47,229 --> 01:49:43,850
states cases okay I'm glad you cleared

2429
01:49:49,410 --> 01:49:47,239
that up that so that what I just

2430
01:49:53,290 --> 01:49:49,420
mentioned may have happened decades ago

2431
01:49:55,540 --> 01:49:53,300
where members may have had access folks

2432
01:49:58,660 --> 01:49:55,550
who who paid for like the newsletter or

2433
01:50:01,090 --> 01:49:58,670
annual paying members of MUFON but are

2434
01:50:03,580 --> 01:50:01,100
not field investigators or state section

2435
01:50:06,130 --> 01:50:03,590
directors or directors they may have had

2436
01:50:10,450 --> 01:50:06,140
access to CMS at one time yes or no no

2437
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:10,460
okay so CNN investigators had access and

2438
01:50:15,670 --> 01:50:12,530
the reason that I don't have time but

2439
01:50:17,229 --> 01:50:15,680
the reason we had limits put on is

2440
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:17,239
because years and years ago before I

2441
01:50:23,020 --> 01:50:18,050
became the DOI

2442
01:50:25,570 --> 01:50:23,030
I had a landing exercise in Dublin Texas

2443
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:25,580
this is right during the Stephenville

2444
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:27,530
things it was really weird but I know

2445
01:50:32,140 --> 01:50:28,730
some people don't have a property we

2446
01:50:35,620 --> 01:50:32,150
staged a landing site and I entered it

2447
01:50:37,479 --> 01:50:35,630
on the MS with a couple other bogus

2448
01:50:39,420 --> 01:50:37,489
little accounts that there was a landing

2449
01:50:42,430 --> 01:50:39,430
in Dublin and we were going to have a

2450
01:50:45,459 --> 01:50:42,440
star team exercise and we went through

2451
01:50:48,220 --> 01:50:45,469
the motions and I guarantee you and

2452
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:48,230
within 24 hours they film investigator

2453
01:50:55,450 --> 01:50:51,050
in New Jersey posted all of the

2454
01:50:58,870 --> 01:50:55,460
information own a web site a UFO web

2455
01:51:02,200 --> 01:50:58,880
site and this is before star team even

2456
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:02,210
got on the scene so our listeners know

2457
01:51:07,540 --> 01:51:04,489
what Steve is talking about when he was

2458
01:51:12,060 --> 01:51:07,550
talking about a site he's he's talking

2459
01:51:14,260 --> 01:51:12,070
about okay so what happens is MUFON will

2460
01:51:19,060 --> 01:51:14,270
every now and then according to their

2461
01:51:24,250 --> 01:51:19,070
schedule create a landing site of for a

2462
01:51:28,210 --> 01:51:24,260
you fo for training purposes in it right

2463
01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:28,220
okay and my understanding is like for

2464
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:30,890
example you might use weedkiller to

2465
01:51:38,730 --> 01:51:35,650
create and then use a grid in order to

2466
01:51:42,610 --> 01:51:38,740
section off different parts of the UFO

2467
01:51:44,440 --> 01:51:42,620
crash-landing site yes then folks will

2468
01:51:47,470 --> 01:51:44,450
show up with technology like for example

2469
01:51:50,980 --> 01:51:47,480
laptops and then also they might use

2470
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:50,990
prosaic things like bags or whatever

2471
01:51:56,700 --> 01:51:53,930
material in order to try and capture

2472
01:51:59,680 --> 01:51:56,710
evidence in the most sanitary and

2473
01:52:05,680 --> 01:51:59,690
scientific manner possible is that right

2474
01:52:06,820 --> 01:52:05,690
that's right and the the executive

2475
01:52:08,350 --> 01:52:06,830
director I think it's clear for clear if

2476
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:08,360
he asked me says well what if somebody

2477
01:52:10,900 --> 01:52:09,650
comes up and wants to know what's going

2478
01:52:12,490 --> 01:52:10,910
on it'll all just tell them it's a

2479
01:52:15,220 --> 01:52:12,500
training exercise because that's exactly

2480
01:52:18,010 --> 01:52:15,230
what it is right then something that's

2481
01:52:19,960 --> 01:52:18,020
really important for people to know not

2482
01:52:21,730 --> 01:52:19,970
that this will ever happen in anyone's

2483
01:52:23,470 --> 01:52:21,740
lifetime okay but Steve and I have

2484
01:52:25,750 --> 01:52:23,480
talked about this before and he was very

2485
01:52:28,710 --> 01:52:25,760
emphatic about it and I think rightfully

2486
01:52:31,870 --> 01:52:28,720
so if somebody ever comes across

2487
01:52:35,200 --> 01:52:31,880
something that appears to be a crash

2488
01:52:38,050 --> 01:52:35,210
well yes call 9-1-1 important to do

2489
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:38,060
meaning a craft that there

2490
01:52:43,870 --> 01:52:40,010
they've never they don't recognize what

2491
01:52:47,140 --> 01:52:43,880
the what the vehicle or object is yes do

2492
01:52:49,150 --> 01:52:47,150
you call 9-1-1 however stay away from it

2493
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:49,160
because if there's radiation of any kind

2494
01:52:53,820 --> 01:52:51,290
you do not want to become exposed to it

2495
01:52:58,920 --> 01:52:53,830
right that's correct

2496
01:53:01,750 --> 01:52:58,930
so and you your your MUFON team or teams

2497
01:53:05,620 --> 01:53:01,760
do they have equipment to detect

2498
01:53:07,480 --> 01:53:05,630
radiation yes okay now you also made

2499
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:07,490
something very clear the last time we

2500
01:53:12,580 --> 01:53:10,010
talked and you said the priority aside

2501
01:53:14,710 --> 01:53:12,590
from calling 9-1-1 and staying away from

2502
01:53:17,410 --> 01:53:14,720
you know any possible radiation

2503
01:53:21,550 --> 01:53:17,420
contamination or exposure is just

2504
01:53:23,320 --> 01:53:21,560
knowing that the the first folks

2505
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:23,330
who would be there to detect radiation

2506
01:53:27,730 --> 01:53:24,650
will probably be like the fire

2507
01:53:31,829 --> 01:53:27,740
department or department devoted to

2508
01:53:34,379 --> 01:53:31,839
radiation as a specialty to there

2509
01:53:36,569 --> 01:53:34,389
to their basic expertise I guess

2510
01:53:37,319 --> 01:53:36,579
basically their expertise right yes

2511
01:53:40,469 --> 01:53:37,329
that's correct

2512
01:53:42,779 --> 01:53:40,479
so so it's just important for folks to

2513
01:53:44,969 --> 01:53:42,789
understand that there's been there's

2514
01:53:47,939 --> 01:53:44,979
been reports that people in the past

2515
01:53:51,599 --> 01:53:47,949
that have come across alleged ET craft

2516
01:53:57,389 --> 01:53:51,609
or some kind of craft crashing that they

2517
01:54:00,089 --> 01:53:57,399
have been exposed to radiation possibly

2518
01:54:02,909 --> 01:54:00,099
right yes there's reports about crashes

2519
01:54:07,020 --> 01:54:02,919
in Mexico where the officers a twinning

2520
01:54:09,659 --> 01:54:07,030
and all died shortly thereafter okay all

2521
01:54:11,699 --> 01:54:09,669
right well this is such a huge topic

2522
01:54:12,979 --> 01:54:11,709
actually but I I'm just really glad we

2523
01:54:16,679 --> 01:54:12,989
were able to go over it I know you

2524
01:54:19,469 --> 01:54:16,689
talked at length regarding house if one

2525
01:54:23,639 --> 01:54:19,479
were to actually study a crashed UFO

2526
01:54:26,489 --> 01:54:23,649
meaning a possible ET craft how a team

2527
01:54:29,129 --> 01:54:26,499
would do it if there was no radiation

2528
01:54:34,379 --> 01:54:29,139
exposure happening if there was zero

2529
01:54:36,869 --> 01:54:34,389
radiation going on and that how a MUFON

2530
01:54:39,149 --> 01:54:36,879
team would actually study analyze and

2531
01:54:42,270 --> 01:54:39,159
research and investigated that was a

2532
01:54:45,629 --> 01:54:42,280
very interesting discussion that you and

2533
01:54:47,609 --> 01:54:45,639
I had and you basically communicated

2534
01:54:50,279 --> 01:54:47,619
that there would be a grid laid out and

2535
01:54:54,979 --> 01:54:50,289
then there would be technology used and

2536
01:54:57,689 --> 01:54:54,989
then folks in theory in the MUFON and

2537
01:55:00,379 --> 01:54:57,699
organization would actually analyze the

2538
01:55:02,369 --> 01:55:00,389
evidence how would they analyze it

2539
01:55:04,829 --> 01:55:02,379
depending on what the piece was what

2540
01:55:06,689 --> 01:55:04,839
size it was we have labs that we send

2541
01:55:08,239 --> 01:55:06,699
things to which are secret labs has

2542
01:55:11,459 --> 01:55:08,249
being the reason it's secret is because

2543
01:55:13,259 --> 01:55:11,469
we don't want every state director and

2544
01:55:14,819 --> 01:55:13,269
every field investigator and MUFON

2545
01:55:17,250 --> 01:55:14,829
saying hey I've got some material here

2546
01:55:19,290 --> 01:55:17,260
and I'm gonna send it over there's some

2547
01:55:20,729 --> 01:55:19,300
there's some boxes of things that Jan

2548
01:55:22,919 --> 01:55:20,739
was telling me about about years ago

2549
01:55:23,909 --> 01:55:22,929
there in headquarters and he says I

2550
01:55:25,049 --> 01:55:23,919
don't know what to do with him I said

2551
01:55:27,629 --> 01:55:25,059
well send them back as people send it to

2552
01:55:29,909 --> 01:55:27,639
you right okay

2553
01:55:31,679 --> 01:55:29,919
well Steve thank you so very much for

2554
01:55:34,290 --> 01:55:31,689
your time I'm really glad that we had

2555
01:55:36,239 --> 01:55:34,300
this opportunity to speak to you it's

2556
01:55:38,279 --> 01:55:36,249
been a fascinating two hours and just

2557
01:55:41,339 --> 01:55:38,289
want to go ahead and let everybody know

2558
01:55:44,939 --> 01:55:41,349
Steve Hudgens is the international

2559
01:55:48,719 --> 01:55:44,949
investigations director for MUFON and he

2560
01:55:51,270 --> 01:55:48,729
overseas 150 countries regarding MUFON

2561
01:55:52,830 --> 01:55:51,280
and just really thank you so much for

2562
01:55:55,439 --> 01:55:52,840
the privilege and honor of interviewing

2563
01:55:56,850 --> 01:55:55,449
you thank you very much is my pleasure

2564
01:55:58,979 --> 01:55:56,860
to be here thank you thanks a lot Steve

2565
01:56:08,009 --> 01:55:58,989
it was a lot of fun I appreciate it okay

2566
01:56:10,069 --> 01:56:08,019
thanks is it done Frank you said you

2567
01:56:15,469 --> 01:56:10,079
wanted to wrap the show so it's not done

2568
01:56:18,479 --> 01:56:15,479
okay stop has it stopped recording no

2569
01:56:21,239 --> 01:56:18,489
this I'm recording this it's just oh

2570
01:56:23,279 --> 01:56:21,249
this [\h__\h] yeah we ever wrap the show you

2571
01:56:25,350 --> 01:56:23,289
were still going okay great let me let

2572
01:56:30,870 --> 01:56:25,360
me go let me go ahead and ask you a few

2573
01:56:33,029 --> 01:56:30,880
questions if that's okay okay well I'll

2574
01:56:37,469 --> 01:56:33,039
be really fast regarding the grave

2575
01:56:39,779 --> 01:56:37,479
damage topic and the US government

2576
01:56:44,850 --> 01:56:39,789
having said that top-secret UFO FILES

2577
01:56:46,410 --> 01:56:44,860
could cause grave damage to the u.s. top

2578
01:56:47,969 --> 01:56:46,420
secret UFO FILES could cause grave

2579
01:56:50,459 --> 01:56:47,979
damage to US national security if

2580
01:56:52,649 --> 01:56:50,469
released is what the Navy said what is

2581
01:56:54,029 --> 01:56:52,659
your feeling on that well they might be

2582
01:56:57,419 --> 01:56:54,039
right but we don't know because we don't

2583
01:57:00,259 --> 01:56:57,429
see it there have been past information

2584
01:57:03,629 --> 01:57:00,269
gathered by the US Navy in particular

2585
01:57:06,689 --> 01:57:03,639
regarding mapping the ocean floor that

2586
01:57:09,569 --> 01:57:06,699
they kept classified for years and it

2587
01:57:13,049 --> 01:57:09,579
prevented scientists from developing

2588
01:57:16,439 --> 01:57:13,059
theories and conclusions of regarding a

2589
01:57:19,859 --> 01:57:16,449
plate tectonics so the the government

2590
01:57:21,750 --> 01:57:19,869
has a lot of tools the military in

2591
01:57:24,540 --> 01:57:21,760
particular has a lot of tools to gather

2592
01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:24,550
information they do it about UFOs they

2593
01:57:30,390 --> 01:57:27,610
did it about the ocean floor back just

2594
01:57:33,419 --> 01:57:30,400
prior to world war two and they they

2595
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:33,429
hold on to it and while I don't think

2596
01:57:40,830 --> 01:57:37,090
it's really necessary to provide too

2597
01:57:42,689 --> 01:57:40,840
much information about the the specifics

2598
01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:42,699
of their tech and so on and so forth

2599
01:57:46,830 --> 01:57:44,530
they could certainly provide more

2600
01:57:48,810 --> 01:57:46,840
information about the number of cases

2601
01:57:52,830 --> 01:57:48,820
that type of thing that they deal with

2602
01:57:54,839 --> 01:57:52,840
so we don't know for sure but I'm not a

2603
01:57:58,470 --> 01:57:54,849
hundred percent convinced that

2604
01:58:00,450 --> 01:57:58,480
everything in those classified UFO FILES

2605
01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:00,460
would really prevent present a grave

2606
01:58:06,060 --> 01:58:03,930
danger so that's where I stand on that

2607
01:58:07,530 --> 01:58:06,070
okay great well that was the only

2608
01:58:10,830 --> 01:58:07,540
question I have for you for right now

2609
01:58:13,740 --> 01:58:10,840
you and I do have some more podcasts

2610
01:58:18,150 --> 01:58:13,750
coming up and also I would love to do a

2611
01:58:20,580 --> 01:58:18,160
podcast with you on some well I would

2612
01:58:22,710 --> 01:58:20,590
like to say I believe it's a conspiracy

2613
01:58:24,090 --> 01:58:22,720
that hit the UFO community but I don't

2614
01:58:27,990 --> 01:58:24,100
want to talk about it right now it

2615
01:58:30,750 --> 01:58:28,000
happened I believe it was in February a

2616
01:58:32,700 --> 01:58:30,760
new conspiracy hit the UFO community and

2617
01:58:34,230 --> 01:58:32,710
at some point I'd like to go ahead and

2618
01:58:36,120 --> 01:58:34,240
talk to you about I wanna talk a little

2619
01:58:38,100 --> 01:58:36,130
bit about that there's a lot of

2620
01:58:41,010 --> 01:58:38,110
disinformation floating around a lot of

2621
01:58:42,810 --> 01:58:41,020
manipulated information that does have

2622
01:58:44,910 --> 01:58:42,820
some basis in fact it's interesting

2623
01:58:47,670 --> 01:58:44,920
stuff I think a good time to talk about

2624
01:58:50,220 --> 01:58:47,680
it'll be next week when we have Michael

2625
01:58:52,890 --> 01:58:50,230
W Hall back with us along with the

2626
01:58:56,250 --> 01:58:52,900
bureau's to talk about nearly an autopsy

2627
01:58:57,780 --> 01:58:56,260
and this all kinds of ties in so that'll

2628
01:58:59,790 --> 01:58:57,790
be a good opportunity to talk a little

2629
01:59:01,350 --> 01:58:59,800
bit more about that there was some

2630
01:59:04,260 --> 01:59:01,360
additional information that came out

2631
01:59:07,020 --> 01:59:04,270
this past yesterday as a matter of fact

2632
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:07,030
regarding at how put off basically

2633
01:59:12,780 --> 01:59:09,130
confirming that there was an exchange

2634
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:12,790
between Erik Davis and Admiral Thomas

2635
01:59:17,580 --> 01:59:15,850
Wilson about those that Wilson memo but

2636
01:59:19,920 --> 01:59:17,590
again he didn't go into a lot of detail

2637
01:59:23,520 --> 01:59:19,930
he just said that there had been an

2638
01:59:24,990 --> 01:59:23,530
exchange now again we'll talk about all

2639
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:25,000
that in a little bit more detail next

2640
01:59:31,740 --> 01:59:29,290
week so yeah let's tune in next week and

2641
01:59:33,780 --> 01:59:31,750
we'll go over it and excruciating detail

2642
01:59:35,310 --> 01:59:33,790
and we'll have to fill I will have to

2643
01:59:37,350 --> 01:59:35,320
get that a little bit more from our

2644
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:37,360
friend Tom Whitmore who was out of that

2645
01:59:43,940 --> 01:59:39,850
well yeah I just wanted to be clear

2646
01:59:49,260 --> 01:59:43,950
about that that what tom Whitmore asked

2647
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:49,270
about various topics of how my response

2648
02:00:00,380 --> 01:59:54,130
to that is even if how put off Eric

2649
02:00:04,410 --> 02:00:00,390
Davis have stated that the Davis Wilson

2650
02:00:07,410 --> 02:00:04,420
doc and I say that with quotes okay is

2651
02:00:11,340 --> 02:00:07,420
has not been altered or is a phony or

2652
02:00:12,450 --> 02:00:11,350
hoax well that's what he said yeah

2653
02:00:14,940 --> 02:00:12,460
I want to be clear that's not what he

2654
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:14,950
said I'm talking about an actual

2655
02:00:20,220 --> 02:00:17,050
conversation I had with him so that's

2656
02:00:23,100 --> 02:00:20,230
why I know with Tom they have yes have

2657
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:23,110
not stated that it's been altered a

2658
02:00:27,090 --> 02:00:25,090
phony or hoax that they basically

2659
02:00:28,560 --> 02:00:27,100
they've not stated that the document is

2660
02:00:31,020 --> 02:00:28,570
altered phony or hoax they have not

2661
02:00:34,460 --> 02:00:31,030
stated that they just has simply refused

2662
02:00:39,090 --> 02:00:34,470
to comment and my my response to that is

2663
02:00:42,470 --> 02:00:39,100
it doesn't matter if let me put it this

2664
02:00:46,820 --> 02:00:42,480
way no matter what there are still

2665
02:00:50,130 --> 02:00:46,830
discrepancies in these yeah absolutely

2666
02:00:51,810 --> 02:00:50,140
all confirmed was that there were there

2667
02:00:54,690 --> 02:00:51,820
was an interview there was an exchange

2668
02:00:56,820 --> 02:00:54,700
between Wilson and Davis yeah and

2669
02:01:00,690 --> 02:00:56,830
there's many discrepancies it's not like

2670
02:01:04,260 --> 02:01:00,700
there's you know what the leaked

2671
02:01:06,630 --> 02:01:04,270
documents you know we've got people on

2672
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:06,640
the record saying that they were

2673
02:01:10,470 --> 02:01:08,410
manipulated we've got that word Miller

2674
02:01:13,290 --> 02:01:10,480
we've got Joe commander Willard Milt

2675
02:01:17,790 --> 02:01:13,300
Miller has already stated but that the

2676
02:01:20,010 --> 02:01:17,800
the the letter the alleged letter he was

2677
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:20,020
supposed to have written he was very

2678
02:01:27,060 --> 02:01:23,170
clear he said those are basically part

2679
02:01:30,120 --> 02:01:27,070
and parcel letters I've written to other

2680
02:01:33,510 --> 02:01:30,130
individuals however there's some

2681
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:33,520
straight-out fiction it's just actual

2682
02:01:40,200 --> 02:01:36,730
fiction made up added to those sewn

2683
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:40,210
together letters that he wrote so that

2684
02:01:44,240 --> 02:01:42,130
one letter was not something he wrote

2685
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:44,250
from beginning to end in an entirely

2686
02:01:51,300 --> 02:01:47,610
different ones and and it also includes

2687
02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:51,310
fictionalized things in that sewn

2688
02:01:56,190 --> 02:01:54,250
together letter so and I still believe

2689
02:01:57,720 --> 02:01:56,200
that despite what put-off said yesterday

2690
02:02:00,780 --> 02:01:57,730
I still believe there are certainly some

2691
02:02:04,050 --> 02:02:00,790
elements in those Wilson Davis notes and

2692
02:02:06,690 --> 02:02:04,060
again for example commander Miller

2693
02:02:08,370 --> 02:02:06,700
supposedly was especially curious about

2694
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:08,380
some particular cases including the

2695
02:02:12,630 --> 02:02:10,570
Socorro case which you know he said he

2696
02:02:15,990 --> 02:02:12,640
had no knowledge of it yeah I certainly

2697
02:02:20,130 --> 02:02:16,000
I do actually believe that that is again

2698
02:02:22,230 --> 02:02:20,140
the the sort of tropes and devices that

2699
02:02:24,300 --> 02:02:22,240
have been used throughout disinformation

2700
02:02:25,170 --> 02:02:24,310
that's come out over the years so again

2701
02:02:27,900 --> 02:02:25,180
now we've got a

2702
02:02:30,210 --> 02:02:27,910
clear picture that put off did confirm

2703
02:02:32,570 --> 02:02:30,220
that there was at least some sort of an

2704
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:32,580
exchange between Davis and Wilson and

2705
02:02:37,290 --> 02:02:35,650
yeah okay I kind of expected that would

2706
02:02:39,270 --> 02:02:37,300
happen I'm I'm kind of surprised they

2707
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:39,280
didn't get that confirmed openly

2708
02:02:43,620 --> 02:02:41,920
publicly before but finally that's

2709
02:02:45,090 --> 02:02:43,630
happened so well our about it with

2710
02:02:47,580 --> 02:02:45,100
Michael hollow I when he comes on next

2711
02:02:49,890 --> 02:02:47,590
week that's that's fine but again I just

2712
02:02:53,610 --> 02:02:49,900
want to make it clear regarding the

2713
02:02:55,380 --> 02:02:53,620
Davis Wilson I laugh when I say the word

2714
02:02:57,810 --> 02:02:55,390
document because I don't believe that

2715
02:02:59,400 --> 02:02:57,820
can really be called a like a dog people

2716
02:03:02,370 --> 02:02:59,410
misunderstand what the word document

2717
02:03:04,290 --> 02:03:02,380
means but I I recommend people look up

2718
02:03:07,400 --> 02:03:04,300
the definition of it that does not mean

2719
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:07,410
that by virtue of the word document

2720
02:03:13,920 --> 02:03:10,930
married to the two names Davis Wilson

2721
02:03:17,010 --> 02:03:13,930
means that whole conspiracy is real as

2722
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:17,020
it stands okay secondly just because how

2723
02:03:23,490 --> 02:03:19,930
put up said that the Davis Wilson

2724
02:03:25,860 --> 02:03:23,500
document in quotes document said that

2725
02:03:29,160 --> 02:03:25,870
there was it contained projects that

2726
02:03:30,930 --> 02:03:29,170
were ongoing possibly classified or

2727
02:03:33,060 --> 02:03:30,940
secret or confidential or whatever

2728
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:33,070
whatever category you want to put them

2729
02:03:42,030 --> 02:03:37,690
in does not mean that documented getting

2730
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:42,040
quote is real it just means it may

2731
02:03:48,060 --> 02:03:44,890
contain information related to projects

2732
02:03:50,370 --> 02:03:48,070
that are confidential but again it

2733
02:03:53,790 --> 02:03:50,380
doesn't verify our authenticate the

2734
02:03:56,190 --> 02:03:53,800
Davis Wilson document as being real in

2735
02:03:59,370 --> 02:03:56,200
its entirety not a stretch of the

2736
02:04:01,500 --> 02:03:59,380
imagination that is the point people

2737
02:04:04,430 --> 02:04:01,510
need to understand that there's some

2738
02:04:09,210 --> 02:04:04,440
real problems with that Davis Wilson

2739
02:04:11,870 --> 02:04:09,220
diary I say diary because it basically

2740
02:04:14,520 --> 02:04:11,880
looks like one the way it's written and

2741
02:04:17,010 --> 02:04:14,530
you know we did a podcast on this I'm

2742
02:04:19,830 --> 02:04:17,020
not going to waste any more time no I

2743
02:04:22,500 --> 02:04:19,840
can also tell you there's no way anyone

2744
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:22,510
on this planet can actually say the

2745
02:04:26,850 --> 02:04:24,370
Davis Wilson dock is real in its

2746
02:04:29,730 --> 02:04:26,860
entirety as it stands if actually it

2747
02:04:30,900 --> 02:04:29,740
cannot be done yeah yeah there are some

2748
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:30,910
things that there are some serious

2749
02:04:34,860 --> 02:04:32,890
problems with it and he did confirm it

2750
02:04:36,540 --> 02:04:34,870
so well you know that Davis did speak to

2751
02:04:37,709 --> 02:04:36,550
Wilson again that's not a huge surprise

2752
02:04:39,570 --> 02:04:37,719
and

2753
02:04:40,740 --> 02:04:39,580
what's really the surprise to me is you

2754
02:04:42,180 --> 02:04:40,750
know they could have gotten it why

2755
02:04:43,979 --> 02:04:42,190
didn't they get this done sooner you

2756
02:04:45,959 --> 02:04:43,989
know why didn't get it I agree and also

2757
02:04:48,030 --> 02:04:45,969
one other thing I'd like to bring up to

2758
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:48,040
the attention of our listeners and that

2759
02:04:58,260 --> 02:04:54,370
is that I contacted an individual who is

2760
02:05:00,030 --> 02:04:58,270
involved in a Pheo and that is I'm sorry

2761
02:05:02,189 --> 02:05:00,040
the former intelligence the FOIA the

2762
02:05:08,189 --> 02:05:02,199
former intelligent the Association of

2763
02:05:16,260 --> 02:05:08,199
former intelligence officers and now

2764
02:05:21,990 --> 02:05:16,270
you're breaking up chat yet and chant

2765
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:26,730
hello hello well everything you're

2766
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:29,770
saying is breaking up okay can you hear

2767
02:05:35,370 --> 02:05:32,610
me now now I can yeah okay yeah

2768
02:05:37,230 --> 02:05:35,380
that person who's a member of a Pheo

2769
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:37,240
looked up on our behalf to see if

2770
02:05:42,630 --> 02:05:39,370
Admiral Wilson had ever been to Las

2771
02:05:44,730 --> 02:05:42,640
Vegas to speak at their a Pheo chapter

2772
02:05:46,830 --> 02:05:44,740
and he never had right right right

2773
02:05:49,230 --> 02:05:46,840
and that was on the record he said

2774
02:05:52,470 --> 02:05:49,240
that's not that never happened that was

2775
02:05:55,530 --> 02:05:52,480
John Alexander was a member of a Pheo he

2776
02:05:57,810 --> 02:05:55,540
has been for many years he looked up

2777
02:06:00,630 --> 02:05:57,820
himself and he was able to determine

2778
02:06:03,120 --> 02:06:00,640
that was not true and right away we were

2779
02:06:06,450 --> 02:06:03,130
able to find that in fact that Vegas

2780
02:06:09,060 --> 02:06:06,460
chapter was a relatively new chapter

2781
02:06:11,550 --> 02:06:09,070
that in fact that had been found founded

2782
02:06:16,350 --> 02:06:11,560
right around that time frame where the

2783
02:06:17,850 --> 02:06:16,360
this meeting supposedly took place so so

2784
02:06:19,560 --> 02:06:17,860
I mean that's about that that let's say

2785
02:06:21,330 --> 02:06:19,570
let's wrap up now we've already gone

2786
02:06:23,250 --> 02:06:21,340
over two hours so let's wrap this up and

2787
02:06:26,270 --> 02:06:23,260
we're gonna have more on all this next

2788
02:06:28,860 --> 02:06:26,280
week so a chant thanks so much again and

2789
02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:28,870
we'll have more it's it's next week

2790
02:06:33,180 --> 02:06:30,370
we're gonna have Michael and Spiros on I

2791
02:06:34,800 --> 02:06:33,190
believe alright so that'll be a lot of

2792
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:34,810
fun thanks a lot everybody I have a

2793
02:06:40,080 --> 02:06:37,210
great week and we'll talk to you next

2794
02:06:42,810 --> 02:06:40,090
week and have more conspiracy and

2795
02:06:44,940 --> 02:06:42,820
disinformation stuff and it's gonna be a